2 Pro-Bonders Fall!!

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="KDOSullivan" post="1016523" timestamp="1307274851"]
[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"
[/quote]

I know at PN-G, teachers are required to work at least one event, but they all still do more. There are very few teachers who don't sponsor some sort of extracurricular activity, and they're typically the older ones who are "winding down" as you were in your last year. With that said, many sponsor multiple activities and work multiple events - they [i]want[/i] to get involved. It's rare that you find a teacher that isn't willing to sponsor the students as long as they're willing to compete. Apparently, it's just not that way at Nederland.

And you're right. That may be more of a personnel problem than a contract problem. It still seems like the NHS administration could do something about it, though.

[Bon_Mot]

As someone with a direct interest in this situation, it really makes me sad ot think about the future of Nederland.  I am a proud Nederland graduate, and when I began teaching, Nederland ISD was always my destination.  It took five years to get there, but when I did I thought I'd be a life-long NISD employee.  When I started having kids, though, I had reprioritize my life. Which was more important: to be considered a good coach or a good dad?  I chose my family, and when the initial bond didn't pass, after working at NHS for 9 years, I chose to leave the town I grew up in and a successful program before the start of the next school year.  It wasn't easy, but I couldn't put my sons in an elementary shcool with window units.  I couldn't (with a sound conscience) put my sons in a district where the "newest" building was built during the Nixon Administration.
The district my boys will now attend has passed [b]SIX[/b] bonds in the past 20 years and opened up four high schools in the past 15. ( http://bond.nisd.net/history/ ). 
I don't like to lose, but after that bond failed, smitty, I knew that I had.  I thought I was a part of a community of people who put the future first, but now I realize that I was wrong.  It has been taken over by a bunch of stubborn mules who would rather spout demagoguery than sit down and find a solution.  Why don't you find a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a successful school with no extra-curricular activites.  But you won't.  You just won't.  You'll just ask an irrelevant question.  Or say "we need to try something different." Or change the subject.  Typical avoidance. 
I only wish you had family attending Nederland schools so we could truly see what your priority is.  But you don't, and your selfishness is obvious. 

[dawgnut]

[quote name="PN-G bandkid" post="1016434" timestamp="1307230685"]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016425#msg1016425 date=1307225483]
Maybe, like ol' Smitty has been saying, too much emphasis has been put on non-priority things!  I remember a couple of years ago we gave the HC a 17,000 dollar raise because he threaten to go to LaMarque.  We didn't really have the money but it was given anyway.  Foolish decision!  Would they have done the same for a teacher that threatens to leave?  I think not!  
So, if KDOSullivan is right, the people with blinders on, like NHS and Penny -- you'll become a dollar one day! -- will understand that what they believe is causing NISD to become just mediocre academically!  

[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]
[/quote]

No, the extracurricular budget doesn't have anything to do with it. Nederland is hurting academically because, frankly, Nederland's policies allow it. For instance, exemption policies at Nederland allow students to exempt a mid-term or final with as low as a 70 average and I believe all Nederland students, underclassmen included, are allowed to exempt all classes all of the time as long as that requirement is met. PN-G, on the other hand, only allows underclassmen to exempt three classes per semester without repeating an exemption in a class for the second semester (with special circumstances applying to math and science classes based on TAKS scores) and only allows students to exempt classes in which their averages are at 80 or above.

Another difference between NISD and other districts is the condition of facilities. Students tend to focus better and give more effort in clean, well-kept environments. As has been said a dozen or so times in this thread alone, Nederland's schools are in bad shape. That has an effect on student morale and focus. Examples of this concept can be found by comparing NISD with districts that have kept their facilities in good shape over the years and even within NISD itself; Nederland's academics have fallen behind while NISD's band and theatre groups have excelled in their new facilities.

Another factor in academic success is extracurricular participation. Studies have shown that students who participate in extracurricular activities have better grades, better conduct, and a higher level of focus than students who do not. Although NISD does have some award-winning extracurricular programs, such as the band and Westernaires, NISD's extracurricular groups are not as big or as numerous as those of many other schools of similar size. I would argue (and bear in mind that this is an outside perspective) that about half of NHS students participate in at least one extracurricular activity - a portion which could be much larger if the right steps were taken.

Standards and curriculum difficulty also come into play. [color=red]I know that Nederland's chapter of the National Honors Society grants automatic membership to anyone with a 3.75 GPA or higher[/color]. Other schools typically add in an application process of some sort that requires a demonstration of leadership, community service, and success in areas outside of academics; special considerations are also normally given to students in honors classes. Curriculum comes into play in that it appears (again, outside perspective) that NISD has settled for the minimum state requirements. The student that transferred into PN-G that I mentioned earlier talked about how he had never seen many of the things in our reviews and even said at one point that he had written more in our English classes in the two months he was here than he had the whole previous year at Nederland; considering what we had done in those classes up to that point, I feel certain that Nederland is settling for the state minimum providing that he was a good example of Nederland's average honors student. Typically, schools establish a district curriculum that exceeds the state requirements, and they also normally provide extra curriculum resources (NISD may or may not provide them, I'm not sure).

Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.

And for the record, Nederland's revenues may not be as high as PN-G's, but we're a Chapter 41 district. After the state takes our money away each year, we actually have less to work with than NISD.
[/quote]

You need to check your facts on this one Band Kid, my daughter had a higher GPA than that and she couldn't get in :o

[dawgnut]

[quote name="KDOSullivan" post="1016523" timestamp="1307274851"]
[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"
[/quote]

Don't kick the teachers to hard, most people don't know and some just don't care but NISD has had budget problems from the day that the ugly old lady Rita came to town. NISD had to spend a lot of money on several schools that FEMA promised to reimburse. It took several years to get a portion of the money back. When you keep reducing the budget a lot of things get reduced such as out of school activities. It cost money to run busses and such. Then you have the problem of escalating maintenance cost. Some very wealthy people in Nederland would have you believe that all you need to do is increase your maintenance budget and all will be well, another dream without foundation. Everything on this earth has a life, buildings included. After they have reached the end of life it cost more to maintain them than to build a new one. When you don't have any money the only way to increase the maintenance budget is to reduce your payroll, or you could pass a bond and build a new school and reduce your maintenance budget because you don't need as much with new buildings. But then according to smitty that's totally illogical!

Besides parents not putting much weight on education these days, the American Spirit appears to be dead, if John Paul Jones were here today he would probably something like "your right there are a lot of torpedoes in the water, and those British ships are kind of big and ugly looking, let's get out of here and look for a better day to fight." The right time to do anything is now. If you wait for the weather to be right you will never plant, and if you don't plant you can't harvest.

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016670" timestamp="1307326618"]
[quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1016434#msg1016434 date=1307230685]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016425#msg1016425 date=1307225483]
Maybe, like ol' Smitty has been saying, too much emphasis has been put on non-priority things!  I remember a couple of years ago we gave the HC a 17,000 dollar raise because he threaten to go to LaMarque.  We didn't really have the money but it was given anyway.  Foolish decision!  Would they have done the same for a teacher that threatens to leave?  I think not!  
So, if KDOSullivan is right, the people with blinders on, like NHS and Penny -- you'll become a dollar one day! -- will understand that what they believe is causing NISD to become just mediocre academically!  

[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]
[/quote]

No, the extracurricular budget doesn't have anything to do with it. Nederland is hurting academically because, frankly, Nederland's policies allow it. For instance, exemption policies at Nederland allow students to exempt a mid-term or final with as low as a 70 average and I believe all Nederland students, underclassmen included, are allowed to exempt all classes all of the time as long as that requirement is met. PN-G, on the other hand, only allows underclassmen to exempt three classes per semester without repeating an exemption in a class for the second semester (with special circumstances applying to math and science classes based on TAKS scores) and only allows students to exempt classes in which their averages are at 80 or above.

Another difference between NISD and other districts is the condition of facilities. Students tend to focus better and give more effort in clean, well-kept environments. As has been said a dozen or so times in this thread alone, Nederland's schools are in bad shape. That has an effect on student morale and focus. Examples of this concept can be found by comparing NISD with districts that have kept their facilities in good shape over the years and even within NISD itself; Nederland's academics have fallen behind while NISD's band and theatre groups have excelled in their new facilities.

Another factor in academic success is extracurricular participation. Studies have shown that students who participate in extracurricular activities have better grades, better conduct, and a higher level of focus than students who do not. Although NISD does have some award-winning extracurricular programs, such as the band and Westernaires, NISD's extracurricular groups are not as big or as numerous as those of many other schools of similar size. I would argue (and bear in mind that this is an outside perspective) that about half of NHS students participate in at least one extracurricular activity - a portion which could be much larger if the right steps were taken.

Standards and curriculum difficulty also come into play. [color=red]I know that Nederland's chapter of the National Honors Society grants automatic membership to anyone with a 3.75 GPA or higher[/color]. Other schools typically add in an application process of some sort that requires a demonstration of leadership, community service, and success in areas outside of academics; special considerations are also normally given to students in honors classes. Curriculum comes into play in that it appears (again, outside perspective) that NISD has settled for the minimum state requirements. The student that transferred into PN-G that I mentioned earlier talked about how he had never seen many of the things in our reviews and even said at one point that he had written more in our English classes in the two months he was here than he had the whole previous year at Nederland; considering what we had done in those classes up to that point, I feel certain that Nederland is settling for the state minimum providing that he was a good example of Nederland's average honors student. Typically, schools establish a district curriculum that exceeds the state requirements, and they also normally provide extra curriculum resources (NISD may or may not provide them, I'm not sure).

Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.

And for the record, Nederland's revenues may not be as high as PN-G's, but we're a Chapter 41 district. After the state takes our money away each year, we actually have less to work with than NISD.
[/quote]

You need to check your facts on this one Band Kid, my daughter had a higher GPA than that and she couldn't get in :o
[/quote]

They've already been checked with a former Nederland NHS member.

[KDOSullivan]

[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016670" timestamp="1307326618"]
[quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1016434#msg1016434 date=1307230685]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016425#msg1016425 date=1307225483]
Maybe, like ol' Smitty has been saying, too much emphasis has been put on non-priority things!  I remember a couple of years ago we gave the HC a 17,000 dollar raise because he threaten to go to LaMarque.  We didn't really have the money but it was given anyway.  Foolish decision!  Would they have done the same for a teacher that threatens to leave?  I think not!  
So, if KDOSullivan is right, the people with blinders on, like NHS and Penny -- you'll become a dollar one day! -- will understand that what they believe is causing NISD to become just mediocre academically!  

[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]
[/quote]

No, the extracurricular budget doesn't have anything to do with it. Nederland is hurting academically because, frankly, Nederland's policies allow it. For instance, exemption policies at Nederland allow students to exempt a mid-term or final with as low as a 70 average and I believe all Nederland students, underclassmen included, are allowed to exempt all classes all of the time as long as that requirement is met. PN-G, on the other hand, only allows underclassmen to exempt three classes per semester without repeating an exemption in a class for the second semester (with special circumstances applying to math and science classes based on TAKS scores) and only allows students to exempt classes in which their averages are at 80 or above.

Another difference between NISD and other districts is the condition of facilities. Students tend to focus better and give more effort in clean, well-kept environments. As has been said a dozen or so times in this thread alone, Nederland's schools are in bad shape. That has an effect on student morale and focus. Examples of this concept can be found by comparing NISD with districts that have kept their facilities in good shape over the years and even within NISD itself; Nederland's academics have fallen behind while NISD's band and theatre groups have excelled in their new facilities.

Another factor in academic success is extracurricular participation. Studies have shown that students who participate in extracurricular activities have better grades, better conduct, and a higher level of focus than students who do not. Although NISD does have some award-winning extracurricular programs, such as the band and Westernaires, NISD's extracurricular groups are not as big or as numerous as those of many other schools of similar size. I would argue (and bear in mind that this is an outside perspective) that about half of NHS students participate in at least one extracurricular activity - a portion which could be much larger if the right steps were taken.

Standards and curriculum difficulty also come into play. [color=red]I know that Nederland's chapter of the National Honors Society grants automatic membership to anyone with a 3.75 GPA or higher[/color]. Other schools typically add in an application process of some sort that requires a demonstration of leadership, community service, and success in areas outside of academics; special considerations are also normally given to students in honors classes. Curriculum comes into play in that it appears (again, outside perspective) that NISD has settled for the minimum state requirements. The student that transferred into PN-G that I mentioned earlier talked about how he had never seen many of the things in our reviews and even said at one point that he had written more in our English classes in the two months he was here than he had the whole previous year at Nederland; considering what we had done in those classes up to that point, I feel certain that Nederland is settling for the state minimum providing that he was a good example of Nederland's average honors student. Typically, schools establish a district curriculum that exceeds the state requirements, and they also normally provide extra curriculum resources (NISD may or may not provide them, I'm not sure).

Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.

And for the record, Nederland's revenues may not be as high as PN-G's, but we're a Chapter 41 district. After the state takes our money away each year, we actually have less to work with than NISD.
[/quote]

You need to check your facts on this one Band Kid, my daughter had a higher GPA than that and she couldn't get in :o
[/quote]
Unfortunately dawgnut, sometimes politics is involved in admission into NHS. I know there was politics at a school I taught at near Ft Worth.

[dawgnut]

Lol, not in America. We don't put up with politics in our schools.

[KDOSullivan]

[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016714" timestamp="1307367611"]
Lol, not in America. We don't put up with politics in our schools.
[/quote]

Esp. with kids concerned getting into NHS, there shouldn't be, but as you said, there is....The other school politics is well, a given.... ::) ::)

[phunter308]

One thing to think about is that we are getting transfers from P.A. and not all of them have a strong educational foundation. This is not a excuse just a fact. PN-G is a school that these kids will not go to because they are looked down on but hey we will take them and all and try our best to make them better men and women. Do not get me wrong Pn-G and Nederland are very close on the Academic landscape according to state records, it is just harder for us because we have less money to start with. I think it is wrong PN-G has to give away so much money but even with that they start with more then we do period by alot say a million. One thing I can say for Nederland is atheletically especially this past year I do believe we beat them in every Uil  atheletic event except boys golf. So maybe it is true if we focused the business end which is academics we would be even more dominate so come on Dogs lets get it done in the class room. LOL On a side note my son has a 3.43 GPA on a standard 4.0 scale no Honors or Ap as of this yr and he is 191 out of 397 in his class so they must have one group of smart sophmores. LOL .

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="phunter308" post="1016843" timestamp="1307397537"]
One thing to think about is that we are getting transfers from P.A. and not all of them have a strong educational foundation. This is not a excuse just a fact. PN-G is a school that these kids will not go to because they are looked down on but hey we will take them and all and try our best to make them better men and women. Do not get me wrong Pn-G and Nederland are very close on the Academic landscape according to state records, it is just harder for us because we have less money to start with. I think it is wrong PN-G has to give away so much money but even with that they start with more then we do period by alot say a million. One thing I can say for Nederland is atheletically especially this past year I do believe we beat them in every Uil  atheletic event except boys golf. So maybe it is true if we focused the business end which is academics we would be even more dominate so come on Dogs lets get it done in the class room. LOL On a side note my son has a 3.43 GPA on a standard 4.0 scale no Honors or Ap as of this yr and he is 191 out of 397 in his class so they must have one group of smart sophmores. LOL .
[/quote]

Not according to the budgets. After the state gives and takes, Nederland has $40 Million to work with, whereas PN-G has $33.5 Million. This is why we were $4 Million in the hole this year.

PN-G beat Nederland in girls' soccer, softball, boys' and girls' golf, and volleyball this year.

PN-G not taking Port Arthur kids? Our district's borders extend into Port Arthur. We may not have as much of Port Arthur as Nederland, but we still have a portion.

GPAs can't really be considered a good standard of comparison between districts because of the apparent differences in the quality of teaching. If you really want to compare education between districts, you have to take a look at their average PSAT, SAT, ACT, and TAKS scores. I don't know what the exact numbers are for the PSAT, SAT, or ACT scores, but PN-G had two National Merit Commended Students in the Class of 2011, and eligibility for that is dependent on PSAT scores. These were two of the six total in Region 5 and we were the only school in that region with more than one. Also, PN-G's TAKS ratings fell just short of "Exemplary" for the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 school years. Nederland was "Academically Acceptable" for 2008-2009. The number of dual credit classes offered can also be taken into account, and PN-G has more than any other high school in Southeast Texas. Also, UIL Academics success can be looked at. I'll let 11 consecutive years of district championships and eight 2011 state qualifiers (two of which placed) speak for themselves.

[smitty]

After Rita came to town.  We have insurance, don't we?


[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016685" timestamp="1307328106"]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016523#msg1016523 date=1307274851]
[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"
[/quote]

Don't kick the teachers to hard, most people don't know and some just don't care but NISD has had budget problems from the day that the ugly old lady Rita came to town. NISD had to spend a lot of money on several schools that FEMA promised to reimburse. It took several years to get a portion of the money back. When you keep reducing the budget a lot of things get reduced such as out of school activities. It cost money to run busses and such. Then you have the problem of escalating maintenance cost. Some very wealthy people in Nederland would have you believe that all you need to do is increase your maintenance budget and all will be well, another dream without foundation. Everything on this earth has a life, buildings included. After they have reached the end of life it cost more to maintain them than to build a new one. When you don't have any money the only way to increase the maintenance budget is to reduce your payroll, or you could pass a bond and build a new school and reduce your maintenance budget because you don't need as much with new buildings. But then according to smitty that's totally illogical!

Besides parents not putting much weight on education these days, the American Spirit appears to be dead, if John Paul Jones were here today he would probably something like "your right there are a lot of torpedoes in the water, and those British ships are kind of big and ugly looking, let's get out of here and look for a better day to fight." The right time to do anything is now. If you wait for the weather to be right you will never plant, and if you don't plant you can't harvest.
[/quote]

[mat]

Some districts had very high deductibles

[Guest The-NHS]

This thread makes me want to
[img]http://mydzyne.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/banging-head-on-wall.jpg%3Fw%3D400%26h%3D300[/img]

Smitty's small minded/acceptance of mediocrity
[img]http://jamiegaymon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Banging-Head-against-wall.jpg[/img]

PNGbandkid's 964 attempts at hijacking the thread into a png celebration
[img]http://www.smisolutions.com/images/head-guy1r.png[/img]

[dawgnut]

[quote name="smitty" post="1016891" timestamp="1307406481"]
After Rita came to town.  We have insurance, don't we?


[quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1016685#msg1016685 date=1307328106]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016523#msg1016523 date=1307274851]
[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"
[/quote]

Don't kick the teachers to hard, most people don't know and some just don't care but NISD has had budget problems from the day that the ugly old lady Rita came to town. NISD had to spend a lot of money on several schools that FEMA promised to reimburse. It took several years to get a portion of the money back. When you keep reducing the budget a lot of things get reduced such as out of school activities. It cost money to run busses and such. Then you have the problem of escalating maintenance cost. Some very wealthy people in Nederland would have you believe that all you need to do is increase your maintenance budget and all will be well, another dream without foundation. Everything on this earth has a life, buildings included. After they have reached the end of life it cost more to maintain them than to build a new one. When you don't have any money the only way to increase the maintenance budget is to reduce your payroll, or you could pass a bond and build a new school and reduce your maintenance budget because you don't need as much with new buildings. But then according to smitty that's totally illogical!

Besides parents not putting much weight on education these days, the American Spirit appears to be dead, if John Paul Jones were here today he would probably something like "your right there are a lot of torpedoes in the water, and those British ships are kind of big and ugly looking, let's get out of here and look for a better day to fight." The right time to do anything is now. If you wait for the weather to be right you will never plant, and if you don't plant you can't harvest.
[/quote]
[/quote]

smitty for someone who has all the answers you ask the wrong questions. In 2010 that's 5 years after Rita NISD was still waiting on a $772,000 reimbursement from the government. They carried a $274,000 deficit the same year. For all the anti-bond crowed that thinks you can just increase your maintenance budget to fix all the buildings it makes it kind of hard when you have a deficit. Maybe we can get the graphic arts department to print some money up, what do you think? You and the "Don't Care" crowd don't want any new taxes or bonds so that may be the only out of the box thing we can do, after all the Feds do it! Oh wait lets just do nothing and wait until the price of money doubles or triples and the price of buildings go up, now that's a good use of your money.

[sandman86]

Awesome post The-NHS! I don't know how a thread about bond supporters turns into the bashing of Nederland ISD students and teachers. As a current teacher at NHS, I can tell you that this year Nederland HS tied or surpassed PNG in every category for the TAKs. Having worked at other school districts I can tell you there is nothing wrong with the educational standards at NHS. One thing students typically struggle in is the block scheduling we are on. When you go from having class for 1 1/2 hour every other day to 50 minutes each day it is different. I had two students from Lumberton come over and nearly flunk the first six weeks due to the change in scheduling, but they recovered and did just fine. I hope you realize not every student is a genius and students lie. I listen to my students complain one day about the amount of work and then a week later tell someone they do nothing in my class. So relying on students for educational analysis is crazy. Also, bandkid, the GPA requirement is correct, but the student must have approval from the faculty before they can be considered and even then not all get in. It is a combination of grades, attendance, participation in extracurriculars and moral character and leadership. I personally filled out 10 forms for students and all met those requirements in my book and only 3 got in, so maybe the policy has changed since you last heard. Nederland's teachers participate in numerous activities at the school and saying otherwise means you are misinformed and ignorant to what is really happening. Finding a teacher not involved in any organization, extracurricular activity, academic event, or AVID would be a very difficult thing to do. I wish I had a list of the academic achievements our kids had this year, but I don't and there are too many to remember. I just remember it took our Super almost 20 minutes to read them all. We do need new facilities, but cutting extracurriculars won't pay for that no matter how many times you go outside that box smitty it just wont work. We didn't fire any teachers this year when districts all around were letting people go. Our district has done the best it can with what it has and the only chance for growth is passing a new bond, which may not happen right away, but it will. Sorry to go on so long, but I just couldn't sit back and watch people who don't know bash our schools, students, and my co-workers. Hope everyone has a great summer and good luck to schools everywhere and the hundreds of teachers who are now unemployed.

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="The-NHS" post="1016898" timestamp="1307409099"]
This thread makes me want to
[img]http://mydzyne.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/banging-head-on-wall.jpg%3Fw%3D400%26h%3D300[/img]

Smitty's small minded/acceptance of mediocrity
[img]http://jamiegaymon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Banging-Head-against-wall.jpg[/img]

PNGbandkid's 964 attempts at hijacking the thread into a png celebration
[img]http://www.smisolutions.com/images/head-guy1r.png[/img]

[/quote]

Not a celebration, just a comparison. ;) :D

In all seriousness, there are some things Nederland does right. I like their dedication to middle school extracurricular activities, and I've always felt that PN-GISD has ground to gain in that area. I've never said that Nederland is overall a bad school (Lord knows there are far worse out there) or even that it's mediocre. My only point is that there are areas where Nederland has fallen behind and unless NISD starts taking steps to catch up, Nederland is going to feel the consequences in the future. Contrary to what smitty and others here might believe, old schools, bad budgets and lax policies aren't going to provide excellence.

[quote author=sandman86 link=topic=84302.msg1016912#msg1016912 date=1307412800]
Awesome post The-NHS! I don't know how a thread about bond supporters turns into the bashing of Nederland ISD students and teachers. As a current teacher at NHS, I can tell you that this year Nederland HS tied or surpassed PNG in every category for the TAKs. Having worked at other school districts I can tell you there is nothing wrong with the educational standards at NHS. One thing students typically struggle in is the block scheduling we are on. When you go from having class for 1 1/2 hour every other day to 50 minutes each day it is different. I had two students from Lumberton come over and nearly flunk the first six weeks due to the change in scheduling, but they recovered and did just fine. I hope you realize not every student is a genius and students lie. I listen to my students complain one day about the amount of work and then a week later tell someone they do nothing in my class. So relying on students for educational analysis is crazy. Also, bandkid, the GPA requirement is correct, but the student must have approval from the faculty before they can be considered and even then not all get in. It is a combination of grades, attendance, participation in extracurriculars and moral character and leadership. I personally filled out 10 forms for students and all met those requirements in my book and only 3 got in, so maybe the policy has changed since you last heard. Nederland's teachers participate in numerous activities at the school and saying otherwise means you are misinformed and ignorant to what is really happening. Finding a teacher not involved in any organization, extracurricular activity, academic event, or AVID would be a very difficult thing to do. I wish I had a list of the academic achievements our kids had this year, but I don't and there are too many to remember. [b]I just remember it took our Super almost 20 minutes to read them all.[/b] We do need new facilities, but cutting extracurriculars won't pay for that no matter how many times you go outside that box smitty it just wont work. We didn't fire any teachers this year when districts all around were letting people go. Our district has done the best it can with what it has and the only chance for growth is passing a new bond, which may not happen right away, but it will. Sorry to go on so long, but I just couldn't sit back and watch people who don't know bash our schools, students, and my co-workers. Hope everyone has a great summer and good luck to schools everywhere and the hundreds of teachers who are now unemployed.
[/quote]

[i]Just[/i] twenty minutes? ;)

The former NHS member I referred to graduated about three years ago, but I assumed his information still applies because the Nederland NHS member who graduated last week standing next to him nodded, seemingly confirming it.

[sandman86]

Your right, I agree completely. And yes just 20 minutes, he had to cut a lot because of time constraints...lol

[sandman86]

Oh and if I trusted everything students said the number of dogs eating homework cases would become an epidemic, along with bathroom breaks and there would never be any need for discipline in school because simply, "they didn't do it."

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="sandman86" post="1016920" timestamp="1307413425"]
Oh and if I trusted everything students said the number of dogs eating homework cases would become an epidemic, along with bathroom breaks and there would never be any need for discipline in school because simply, "they didn't do it."
[/quote]

You, being a teacher, probably best understand that honors students normally (although certainly not always) do not tell lies. At least, they don't often lie at PN-G. ;)

And when you have more than one student saying it, it's hard to believe that there's absolutely no truth to it.

[sandman86]

True, and yet they did. Go figure.

[smitty]

Can't ever depend on the government.  You should know that.  I was talking, though, about insurance.


[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016906" timestamp="1307411335"]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016891#msg1016891 date=1307406481]
After Rita came to town.  We have insurance, don't we?


[quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1016685#msg1016685 date=1307328106]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016523#msg1016523 date=1307274851]
[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"
[/quote]

Don't kick the teachers to hard, most people don't know and some just don't care but NISD has had budget problems from the day that the ugly old lady Rita came to town. NISD had to spend a lot of money on several schools that FEMA promised to reimburse. It took several years to get a portion of the money back. When you keep reducing the budget a lot of things get reduced such as out of school activities. It cost money to run busses and such. Then you have the problem of escalating maintenance cost. Some very wealthy people in Nederland would have you believe that all you need to do is increase your maintenance budget and all will be well, another dream without foundation. Everything on this earth has a life, buildings included. After they have reached the end of life it cost more to maintain them than to build a new one. When you don't have any money the only way to increase the maintenance budget is to reduce your payroll, or you could pass a bond and build a new school and reduce your maintenance budget because you don't need as much with new buildings. But then according to smitty that's totally illogical!

Besides parents not putting much weight on education these days, the American Spirit appears to be dead, if John Paul Jones were here today he would probably something like "your right there are a lot of torpedoes in the water, and those British ships are kind of big and ugly looking, let's get out of here and look for a better day to fight." The right time to do anything is now. If you wait for the weather to be right you will never plant, and if you don't plant you can't harvest.
[/quote]
[/quote]

smitty for someone who has all the answers you ask the wrong questions. In 2010 that's 5 years after Rita NISD was still waiting on a $772,000 reimbursement from the government. They carried a $274,000 deficit the same year. For all the anti-bond crowed that thinks you can just increase your maintenance budget to fix all the buildings it makes it kind of hard when you have a deficit. Maybe we can get the graphic arts department to print some money up, what do you think? You and the "Don't Care" crowd don't want any new taxes or bonds so that may be the only out of the box thing we can do, after all the Feds do it! Oh wait lets just do nothing and wait until the price of money doubles or triples and the price of buildings go up, now that's a good use of your money.
[/quote]

[smitty]

When some people can't understand something they use names like, well, mediocrity.  Stick around and learn.  Take the "status qua" blinders off and stop drinking the kool-aid.  There are serious problems here.  You "stay the course" answers don't work anymore!!      ::)      ;)

[quote name="The-NHS" post="1016898" timestamp="1307409099"]
This thread makes me want to
[img]http://mydzyne.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/banging-head-on-wall.jpg%3Fw%3D400%26h%3D300[/img]

Smitty's small minded/acceptance of mediocrity
[img]http://jamiegaymon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Banging-Head-against-wall.jpg[/img]

PNGbandkid's 964 attempts at hijacking the thread into a png celebration
[img]http://www.smisolutions.com/images/head-guy1r.png[/img]

[/quote]

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="sandman86" post="1016930" timestamp="1307415548"]
True, and yet they did. Go figure.
[/quote]

Let me get this straight. You're openly stating that two former Nederland honors students lied? Or have I misunderstood something?

[Guest The-NHS]

[quote name="sandman86" post="1016912" timestamp="1307412800"]
Awesome post The-NHS! I don't know how a thread about bond supporters turns into the bashing of Nederland ISD students and teachers. As a current teacher at NHS, I can tell you that this year Nederland HS tied or surpassed PNG in every category for the TAKs. Having worked at other school districts I can tell you there is nothing wrong with the educational standards at NHS. One thing students typically struggle in is the block scheduling we are on. When you go from having class for 1 1/2 hour every other day to 50 minutes each day it is different. I had two students from Lumberton come over and nearly flunk the first six weeks due to the change in scheduling, but they recovered and did just fine. I hope you realize not every student is a genius and students lie. I listen to my students complain one day about the amount of work and then a week later tell someone they do nothing in my class. So relying on students for educational analysis is crazy. Also, bandkid, the GPA requirement is correct, but the student must have approval from the faculty before they can be considered and even then not all get in. It is a combination of grades, attendance, participation in extracurriculars and moral character and leadership. I personally filled out 10 forms for students and all met those requirements in my book and only 3 got in, so maybe the policy has changed since you last heard. Nederland's teachers participate in numerous activities at the school and saying otherwise means you are misinformed and ignorant to what is really happening. Finding a teacher not involved in any organization, extracurricular activity, academic event, or AVID would be a very difficult thing to do. I wish I had a list of the academic achievements our kids had this year, but I don't and there are too many to remember. I just remember it took our Super almost 20 minutes to read them all. We do need new facilities, but cutting extracurriculars won't pay for that no matter how many times you go outside that box smitty it just wont work. We didn't fire any teachers this year when districts all around were letting people go. Our district has done the best it can with what it has and the only chance for growth is passing a new bond, which may not happen right away, but it will. Sorry to go on so long, but I just couldn't sit back and watch people who don't know bash our schools, students, and my co-workers. Hope everyone has a great summer and good luck to schools everywhere and the hundreds of teachers who are now unemployed.
[/quote]

Couldn't say it better. Also, great to hear we aren't letting any teachers go. Like you said, It seems the majority of school districts are cutting teachers left and right. I heard a crazy number of 100,000 if we do not tap into the rainy day fund?? Could be wrong its just what I read.

I'll say it one more time since this thread has been beaten to death. I agree sandman that the majority of NISD consists of quality teachers that are doing their best all while dealing with a generation of parents that seem to be out of touch with their child's educational needs and progress. I also believe that our open door campus policy is negatively attributing to that. Currently, Nederland has a lower tax rate (I believe and could be wrong) in comparison to local school districts. I think that by passing a real bond (not some 5 million dollar replace window units bond) that focuses on replacing our old facilities and provides students with an atmosphere to excel will greatly improve Nederland's academics and appeal to future residents. I don't care what non bonders believe, I think new facilities immediately result in a sense of pride from the students, teachers, and community that results in a revived desire to succeed. If I walk into a dump, I think that negatively effects my performance. Ever heard the term "If you look good you play good?" While I don't believe flashy wristbands or visors (jumbotron, turf) effect performance, I do believe there is some truth to better results from facilities that aren't constantly leaking, cooled off by window units, actual crap in the bathrooms from bad toilets and plumbing, etc.. Plus new facilities attract the best teachers and parents.

[Guest The-NHS]

[quote name="smitty" post="1016933" timestamp="1307416686"]
When some people can't understand something they use names like, well, mediocrity.  Stick around and learn.  Take the "status qua" blinders off and stop drinking the kool-aid.  There are serious problems here.  You "stay the course" answers don't work anymore!!      ::)      ;)

[quote author=The-NHS link=topic=84302.msg1016898#msg1016898 date=1307409099]
This thread makes me want to
[img]http://mydzyne.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/banging-head-on-wall.jpg%3Fw%3D400%26h%3D300[/img]

Smitty's small minded/acceptance of mediocrity
[img]http://jamiegaymon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Banging-Head-against-wall.jpg[/img]

PNGbandkid's 964 attempts at hijacking the thread into a png celebration
[img]http://www.smisolutions.com/images/head-guy1r.png[/img]

[/quote]
[/quote]

"staying the course" is your stance not mine. The current course is slipping schools and crappy facilities. Im not on that course with you. Nice try though. You're right, there are serious problems here and small minded, mediocre content people like yourself have no solution to fix the problems. Keep on drinking that kool aid you speak of that thinks cutting athletics and hiring more people to clean the crap from toilets, patch up failing roofs, tinker on window units, and paint the halls is going to fix the problems. You're out of touch with the needs of NISD and your solution would only cripple our school district.