Basketball Conditioning Question

[stevenash]

Talk all you want about twitches and aerobic/anerobic.  The bottom line to me is the FACT that if some type of training improves a players conditioning, then he is gonna be better off toward the end of the game.  If he BELIEVES he has an advantage, he WILL likely have one.  At the high school level, its a different story.  You cannot do what Loyola Marymount does.  You have limited time and resources.  You go ahead and keep your hundred yard dash champion and I will keep the 5 K guy and we will just see who has plenty of gas after running up and down the floor for 90 minutes.  As for the NBA training, it is my understanding that LeBrons main method of training is Yoga.  I am further guessing that Dirk Nowitzky, Paul Pierce,  Tim Duncan, and Kevin Durant among others, do very little sprint training.  I can remember some years ago when a tennis player named Bjorn Borg was technically incorrect in hitting the ball with an open stance.  All of the "experts" pronounced this method as inefficient and ineffective.  Today, EVERY player uses that method. 

[asary]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075173" timestamp="1317949400"]
Talk all you want about twitches and aerobic/anerobic.  The bottom line to me is the FACT that if some type of training improves a players conditioning, then he is gonna be better off toward the end of the game.  If he BELIEVES he has an advantage, he WILL likely have one.  At the high school level, its a different story.  You cannot do what Loyola Marymount does.  You have limited time and resources.  You go ahead and keep your hundred yard dash champion and I will keep the 5 K guy and we will just see who has plenty of gas after running up and down the floor for 90 minutes.  As for the NBA training, it is my  understanding that LeBrons main method of training is Yoga.  I am further guessing that Dirk Nowitzky, Paul Pierce,  Tim Duncan, and Kevin Durant among others, do very little sprint training.  I can remember some years ago when a tennis player named Bjorn Borg was
technically incorrect in hitting the ball with an open stance.  All of the "experts" pronounced
this method as inefficient and ineffective.  Today, EVERY player uses that method.
[/quote]

You say If you believe you have an advantage, you likely will. My opinion is that the better prepared athlete will have the advantage. If I believe I am faster than my opponent, am I? If I believe a can do a 360 slam dunk, can I? Don't we only wish that was true. You also mention "limited time and resources". Thank you, that is exactly my point that to be most efficient, athletes should train in a sport-specific manner.

[stevenash]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1075183" timestamp="1317950088"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075173#msg1075173 date=1317949400]
Talk all you want about twitches and aerobic/anerobic.  The bottom line to me is the FACT that if some type of training improves a players conditioning, then he is gonna be better off toward the end of the game.  If he BELIEVES he has an advantage, he WILL likely have one.  At the high school level, its a different story.  You cannot do what Loyola Marymount does.  You have limited time and resources.  You go ahead and keep your hundred yard dash champion and I will keep the 5 K guy and we will just see who has plenty of gas after running up and down the floor for 90 minutes.  As for the NBA training, it is my  understanding that LeBrons main method of training is Yoga.  I am further guessing that Dirk Nowitzky, Paul Pierce,  Tim Duncan, and Kevin Durant among others, do very little sprint training.  I can remember some years ago when a tennis player named Bjorn Borg was
technically incorrect in hitting the ball with an open stance.  All of the "experts" pronounced
this method as inefficient and ineffective.  Today, EVERY player uses that method.
[/quote]

You say If you believe you have an advantage, you likely will. My opinion is that the better prepared athlete will have the advantage. If I believe I am faster than my opponent, am I? If I believe a can do a 360 slam dunk, can I? Don't we only wish that was true. You also mention "limited time and resources". Thank you, that is exactly my point that to be most efficient, athletes should train in a sport-specific manner.
[/quote]

Then the difference between you and me is what we each believe constitutes "better prepared".  IF we assume that the game has a mental and a physical aspect, it appears that you believe mostly in the physical part while I believe that you are underestimating the value of the mental aspect.  So, I am suggesting that the guy who believes he has plenty of gas left in the tank at the end of the game has an advantage if he believes he does.  I further suggest that cross country training provides the athlete with some extra mental toughness.  As for the limited time/resources comment: in all but the very largest schools, athletes participate in more than one sport.  Hence, it is much more likely that he can contribute materially to the schools athletic program via cross country participation than basketball specific training in the fall.

[AggiesAreWe]

or football. ;) ;D

[asary]

Nash, you and I are not as far apart as it may seem. I do not underestimate the mental aspect of the game at all, however, I believe an athlete's mental strength comes from being physically prepared. As far as the guy who believes he has fuel in the tank at the end of the game, well I agree, he probably believes that because he is physically prepared, otherwise it would be obvious he had no fuel left. And I certainly agree that cross country training develops a mental strength. And as far as cross country running better preparing someone for multiple sports, I wouldn't argue that it doesnt  (I came back and added this: as long as sprint work is also included...lol), I was only arguing what was specifically best for basketball.

[klkctt87]

In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="tokenwb" post="1075274" timestamp="1317954294"]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]



Shhhhhhh... it's football that sets it apart. ;) ;D

[sleepy]

I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075046" timestamp="1317938188"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075034#msg1075034 date=1317937379]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075016#msg1075016 date=1317935674]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1074993#msg1074993 date=1317933166]
Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements.

sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;)
[/quote]

I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash
[/quote] Nash, come back to earth. Larry Bird is retired ;D
[/quote]

Yes, he is.  He did manage, however, to survive the rigors of the NBA rather successfully without concern for "twitches"
[/quote]One of many few

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="sleepy" post="1075406" timestamp="1317989959"]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075417" timestamp="1317991427"]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075526" timestamp="1318001346"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck
[/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075554" timestamp="1318003500"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075526#msg1075526 date=1318001346]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck
[/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o
[/quote]

Bluequail, why are you bringing Silsbee into this thread?  Stand your own ground.  We can make H-J mad enough on our own. ;D 8)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075554" timestamp="1318003500"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075526#msg1075526 date=1318001346]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck
[/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o
[/quote]

I never dispute your wisdom, Dove.  HJ will probably have a .500 district record this year- that is, if we are lucy(note the missing K)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="tigersvoice" post="1075566" timestamp="1318004498"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075554#msg1075554 date=1318003500]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075526#msg1075526 date=1318001346]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck
[/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o
[/quote]

Bluequail, why are you bringing Silsbee into this thread?  Stand your own ground.  We can make H-J mad enough on our own. ;D 8)
[/quote] ;D :D I'm guilty as accused

[BLUEDOVE3]

:D ;D You guys kill me..ooops! ;D wrong forum


[quote name="stevenash" post="1075570" timestamp="1318004622"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075554#msg1075554 date=1318003500]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075526#msg1075526 date=1318001346]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075417#msg1075417 date=1317991427]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=89266.msg1075406#msg1075406 date=1317989959]
I know one thing.  HJ's basketball players have participated in cross country for years.  Everyone on this board can admit that HJ never has the best athletes on the court.  The results speak for themselves!
[/quote] LUCK  ;D
[/quote]

Consistent luck
[/quote]Yall *luc* running out. Notice the missing "K." Represents time is running out  ;D Silsbee can't wait to beat HJ  :o
[/quote]

I never dispute your wisdom, Dove.  HJ will probably have a .500 district record this year- that is, if we are lucy(note the missing K)
[/quote]

[stevenash]

[quote name="tokenwb" post="1075274" timestamp="1317954294"]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.

[stevenash]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1075161" timestamp="1317948590"]
[quote author=tamulonghorn link=topic=89266.msg1075149#msg1075149 date=1317948048]
thats odd last i checked anaerobis had to do with heart rate and not what exercise it is
[/quote]

Aerobic or anaerobic refers to the "energy system" being utilized in the specific exercise/activity.
[/quote]

You clearly understand "energy systems" and the difference between "red and white muscle fibers".  However, it is obvious that what you don't understand is the UIL rules and limitations with out of season workouts.  Outside of the season a coach cannot coach his kids in that sport (ex:  basketball in the fall).  However, a coach CAN coach his kids during the athletic period each day (in any sport all year long).  We all agree that this time of year basketball players need to spend time getting in shape for their season.  So, should a basketball coach use his court time during the athletic period to condition or to develop skills?  The ideal answer would be both but, as we have discussed earlier strength and conditioning are a large part of a successful program and with an athletic period only being 50 minutes to 1 hour there is hardly any way to do skills, strength, and 
conditioning all in that time frame.  So what is the best solution? 
Well, since cross country coincides with what is considered basketball pre-season then why wouldn't a coach have his kids be part of that program (especially if one of the basketball staff is the CC coach)where they can do their strength and conditioning after school and use the athletic period where the coach can coach them for basketball skill development?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075574" timestamp="1318004734"]
[quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.
[/quote] theres that word again  :-X :-X

[stevenash]

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6025




people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075584" timestamp="1318005102"]
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6025




people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile
[/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075662" timestamp="1318010101"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075584#msg1075584 date=1318005102]
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6025




people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile
[/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players.
[/quote]

Dove- Go back and look up a basketball player named John Havlicek,( Ohio State/Boston Celtics/13 time NBA All Star/ 8 time NBA Champion) who, at the time, was regarded as one of the best conditioned athletes in the world.  He was a superior basketball player and it was NOT because of his explosiveness or jumping ability or general athletecism..  His endurance paid huge dividends for him and he was still at full speed when everybody else was fading.

[PoppaBearstarr]

You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075664" timestamp="1318010576"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075662#msg1075662 date=1318010101]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075584#msg1075584 date=1318005102]
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6025




people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile
[/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players.
[/quote]

Dove- Go back and look up a basketball player named John Havlicek,( Ohio State/Boston Celtics/13 time NBA All Star/ 8 time NBA Champion) who, at the time, was regarded as one of the best conditioned athletes in the world.  He was a superior basketball player and it was NOT because of his explosiveness or jumping ability or general athletecism..  His endurance paid huge dividends for him and he was still at full speed when everybody else was fading.
[/quote]Nash, do you still watch those old games[color=red] DURING THE 90'S [/color]and see how SLOW those guys are compared to the kids today? And you wanna bring up Havlichek? I saw you on the other day from the early 2000's. Give it up!  ;D

[no-look]

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="1075738" timestamp="1318016695"]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]Thats down to my level now...lol.......It's kinda like "Good things happen if you can hit the bucket"