Basketball Conditioning Question

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="no-look" post="1075779" timestamp="1318019120"]
[quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]Thats down to my level now...lol.......It's kinda like "Good things happen if you can hit the bucket"
[/quote]Ah, now we're making a little progress. Running cc  ain't gonna matter if you don't have the footwork or skill set to get to the rim

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075748" timestamp="1318017685"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075664#msg1075664 date=1318010576]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1075662#msg1075662 date=1318010101]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075584#msg1075584 date=1318005102]
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6025




people training for 5k's which is what CC is do sprint work twice a week.....they have to train both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers....anyone that has seen someone run a 5k in a good time knows that these guys are running 6 min miles on top of each other....if you have ever run a 6 minute mile you know it involves fast twitch fibers....there is nothing that is not explosive about a 6 minute mile
[/quote]It makes them better twitch runners, not basketball players.
[/quote]

Dove- Go back and look up a basketball player named John Havlicek,( Ohio State/Boston Celtics/13 time NBA All Star/ 8 time NBA Champion) who, at the time, was regarded as one of the best conditioned athletes in the world.  He was a superior basketball player and it was NOT because of his explosiveness or jumping ability or general athletecism..  His endurance paid huge dividends for him and he was still at full speed when everybody else was fading.
[/quote]Nash, do you still watch those old games[color=red] DURING THE 90'S [/color]and see how SLOW those guys are compared to the kids today? And you wanna bring up Havlichek? I saw you on the other day from the early 2000's. Give it up!  ;D
[/quote]

Yada yada yada-  And Bird was too slow and couldnt jump for his time either.

[asary]

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="1075738" timestamp="1318016695"]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]

You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D

[asary]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075576" timestamp="1318004843"]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1075161#msg1075161 date=1317948590]
[quote author=tamulonghorn link=topic=89266.msg1075149#msg1075149 date=1317948048]
thats odd last i checked anaerobis had to do with heart rate and not what exercise it is
[/quote]

Aerobic or anaerobic refers to the "energy system" being utilized in the
specific exercise/activity.
[/quote]

You clearly understand "energy systems" and the difference between "red and white muscle fibers".  However, it is obvious that what you don't understand is the UIL rules and limitations
with out of season workouts.  Outside of the season a coach cannot coach his kids in that sport (ex:  basketball in the fall).  However, a coach CAN coach his kids during the athletic period each day (in any
sport all year long).  We all agree that this time of year basketball players need to spend time getting in shape for their season.  So, should a basketball coach use his court time during the athletic period to condition or to develop skills?  The ideal answer would be both but, as we have discussed earlier strength and conditioning are a large part of a successful program and with an athletic period only being 50 minutes to 1 hour there is hardly any way to do skills,
strength, and
conditioning all in that time frame.  So what is the best solution? 
Well, since cross country coincides with what is considered basketball
pre-season then why wouldn't a coach have his kids be part of that program (especially if one of the basketball staff is the CC coach)where they can do their strength and conditioning after school and use the athletic period where the coach can coach them for basketball skill development?
[/quote]

Nash, maybe we're further apart on our opinions than I realized. You say, "we all agree this time of year the basketball players need to spend time
getting in shape for the season".  I believe they should already be in shape, what in the world were they doing during the summer? As far as the UIL rules, I fully understand what a coach can do with his kids in the summer, and during athletic class during preseason. I would think a good coach would have his kids fully educated on the appropriate individual off season conditioning program, one in which the coach was not involved in. Next, you ask if the coach should use his court time during preseason athletic class to condition or develop skills?  This is not necessarily an either/or option. You would do both at the same time, that is the whole
point of sport specific training/conditioning. I understand there is "down time" for instruction in offense, defense, press, etc., but I don't consider that skill development. And back to the cross country running, if you would otherwise be at home sitting on the couch then by all means go cross country running.

[asary]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075574" timestamp="1318004734"]
[quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in
any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.
[/quote]

Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't run cross country!  ;D ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1076759" timestamp="1318045754"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075574#msg1075574 date=1318004734]
[quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in
any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.
[/quote]

Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't run cross country!  ;D ;D
[/quote]

Hmmm- Let me see.  Basketball players participate in cross country practice AND meets as well.  Competition is good for them, they improve endurance, and the UIL is happy.  Excuse me, but it would seem that this conclusion is not rocket science.

[asary]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1077154" timestamp="1318089148"]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076759#msg1076759 date=1318045754]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075574#msg1075574 date=1318004734]
[quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in
any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.
[/quote]

Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't
run cross country!  ;D ;D
[/quote]

Hmmm- Let me see.  Basketball players participate in cross country practice AND meets as well.  Competition is good for them, they improve endurance, and the UIL is happy.  Excuse me, but it would seem that this conclusion is not rocket science.
[/quote]

I agree, it's not rocket science. Simply put, these "basketball" players are running cross country to prepare them for the cross country meets, not for basketball games. Again, sport specific training. Nash, it seems you keep making my point for me, but you simply refuse to agree with me.  ;D ;D

Let me say I really have nothing against cross country running, and I know it has many benefits. Again, my point is simply that it is not the BEST mode of conditioning for BASKETBALL players.  OK, time to take break and watch OU/TU. I have enjoyed the debate maybe we can continue over on the "Weights" thread.  :)

[stevenash]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1077170" timestamp="1318090895"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1077154#msg1077154 date=1318089148]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076759#msg1076759 date=1318045754]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075574#msg1075574 date=1318004734]
[quote author=tokenwb link=topic=89266.msg1075274#msg1075274 date=1317954294]
In Silsbee, the basketball players that do not play football run with the Cross Country team every day after school.  They also combine this with speed drills.  This type of conditioning will pay off.
[/quote]

YOu may not want to post this type of information.  If bball players are working out with cross country team after school but do not participate in
any meets, that is a big no-no in the eyes of the UIL.
[/quote]

Just wondering why you post this, and then yourself ask me why wouldnt bballl players participate in the cross country program after school. You confusing me Nash . See, even UIL knows basketball players shouldn't
run cross country!  ;D ;D
[/quote]

Hmmm- Let me see.  Basketball players participate in cross country practice AND meets as well.  Competition is good for them, they improve endurance, and the UIL is happy.  Excuse me, but it would seem that this conclusion is not rocket science.
[/quote]

I agree, it's not rocket science. Simply put, these "basketball" players are running cross country to prepare them for the cross country meets, not for basketball games. Again, sport specific training. Nash, it seems you keep making my point for me, but you simply refuse to agree with me.  ;D ;D

Let me say I really have nothing against cross country running, and I know it has many benefits. Again, my point is simply that it is not the BEST mode of conditioning for BASKETBALL players.  OK, time to take break and watch OU/TU. I have enjoyed the debate maybe we can continue over on the "Weights" thread.  :)
[/quote]

I too am watching texas-ou-  I too have also personally seen/experienced the benefits of cross country for basketball players/teams.  Whats best for a player/team is what works and not necessarily what a "study" says/implies.  Additionally, it has NEVER been my contention that cross country, by itself is the end all/be all.  However, it does provide benefits.  I've seen it too many times.

[whsalum]

Anything you can do to improve conditioning will help prepare you for the season.CC isn't the end all but it definiely is a start.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1076268" timestamp="1318038229"]
[quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]

You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D
[/quote]no shiggidy! CaN BaReLy typ e skRaightt now. My Finger SHakInG

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1078228" timestamp="1318188360"]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076268#msg1076268 date=1318038229]
[quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]

You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D
[/quote]no shiggidy! CaN BaReLy typ e skRaightt now. My Finger SHakInG
[/quote]

That's only because you haven't been doing enough "writing specific" exercises.

[asary]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1078319" timestamp="1318195215"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078228#msg1078228 date=1318188360]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076268#msg1076268 date=1318038229]
[quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]

You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D
[/quote]no shiggidy! CaN BaReLy typ e skRaightt now. My Finger SHakInG
[/quote]

That's only because you haven't been doing enough "[b]writing specific" [/b].
exercises.
[/quote]

Come on Nash, haven't you learned anything yet?? That should be "typing specific" exercises  ;D ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1078655" timestamp="1318213856"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078319#msg1078319 date=1318195215]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078228#msg1078228 date=1318188360]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1076268#msg1076268 date=1318038229]
[quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=89266.msg1075738#msg1075738 date=1318016695]
You all are far too sciency, all this talk about red and white muscle fibers and to twitch or not twitch, man we just want to put the ball in the hole more than the other team.  :D
[/quote]

You're right! And if the bball season doesnt get here fast we are all gonna be "twitchin" ;D
[/quote]no shiggidy! CaN BaReLy typ e skRaightt now. My Finger SHakInG
[/quote]

That's only because you haven't been doing enough "[b]writing specific" [/b].
exercises.
[/quote]

Come on Nash, haven't you learned anything yet?? That should be "typing specific" exercises  ;D ;D
[/quote]

Since typing is the mechanical "move" to exercise here, I will stay with that.

[killingmesmalls]

Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="killingmesmalls" post="1078722" timestamp="1318225464"]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1078785" timestamp="1318251449"]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1078828" timestamp="1318254738"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078785#msg1078785 date=1318251449]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.
[/quote] I would have gone along with any program with cc being part of the off season conditioning. But once again I commend HJ with the system they have. It works for you guys until you reach playoffs ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1078836" timestamp="1318255222"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078828#msg1078828 date=1318254738]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078785#msg1078785 date=1318251449]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.
[/quote] I would have gone along with any program with cc being part of the off season conditioning. But once again I commend HJ with the system they have. It works for you guys until you reach playoffs ;D
[/quote]

I think you might find that the HJ playoff frequency and/or playoff winning percentage will compare quite favorably with anyone in the area.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1078855" timestamp="1318255983"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078836#msg1078836 date=1318255222]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078828#msg1078828 date=1318254738]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078785#msg1078785 date=1318251449]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.
[/quote] I would have gone along with any program with cc being part of the off season conditioning. But once again I commend HJ with the system they have. It works for you guys until you reach playoffs ;D
[/quote]

I think you might find that the HJ playoff frequency and/or playoff winning percentage will compare quite favorably with anyone in the area.
[/quote]Weak district? weak bi-district maybe?  8 ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1078992" timestamp="1318263691"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078855#msg1078855 date=1318255983]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078836#msg1078836 date=1318255222]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078828#msg1078828 date=1318254738]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078785#msg1078785 date=1318251449]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.
[/quote] I would have gone along with any program with cc being part of the off season conditioning. But once again I commend HJ with the system they have. It works for you guys until you reach playoffs ;D
[/quote]

I think you might find that the HJ playoff frequency and/or playoff winning percentage will compare quite favorably with anyone in the area.
[/quote]Weak district? weak bi-district maybe?  8 ;D
[/quote]

Yea, sure.  Weak district and weak bidistrict every year for five consecutive years.  Cleveland and Navasota were also weak for the past several years.  It was pure luck.  2007 was a weak "state". I feel lucky that several of the motel proprietors in Huntsville know me by my first name.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1079040" timestamp="1318266715"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078992#msg1078992 date=1318263691]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078855#msg1078855 date=1318255983]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078836#msg1078836 date=1318255222]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1078828#msg1078828 date=1318254738]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1078785#msg1078785 date=1318251449]
[quote author=killingmesmalls link=topic=89266.msg1078722#msg1078722 date=1318225464]
Not sure what workout the Dove's sons are doing now, but if they were still at HF the Head BB coach is the CC coach.  I guess it is a good thing Mama pulled them out to Ozen or we might have had a parent/coach conference already to discuss this wonderful CC/BB conditioning debate!  ;D
[/quote]Nope! Would have been fine with CC.
[/quote]

Dove- this sounds like a change of heart from the post that initiated this thread.
[/quote] I would have gone along with any program with cc being part of the off season conditioning. But once again I commend HJ with the system they have. It works for you guys until you reach playoffs ;D
[/quote]

I think you might find that the HJ playoff frequency and/or playoff winning percentage will compare quite favorably with anyone in the area.
[/quote]Weak district? weak bi-district maybe?  8 ;D
[/quote]

Yea, sure.  Weak district and weak bidistrict every year for five consecutive years.  Cleveland and Navasota were also weak for the past several years.  It was pure luck.  2007 was a weak "state". I feel lucky that several of the motel proprietors in Huntsville know me by my first name.
[/quote]All in the past Nash! LOL! You guys are good for bi-district for the next year or so. Oh but thats right, you have a *transfer * in ....might make a difference. I got love for HJ...and you know this!!!

[stevenash]

For sure.  If it werent for the move in, we would probably be district cellar dwellers.  Gotta love that luck.  That luck was particularly evident in consecutive games with Cleveland where we were severely outmanned.  The only things our kids could do was run on unbasketball specific trained legs, shoot reasonably well and not turn it over a lot.  Some times , with a lot of luck, of course,that combination can make a team reasonably competitive.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1079078" timestamp="1318268978"]
For sure.  If it werent for the move in, we would probably be district cellar dwellers.  Gotta love that luck.  That luck was particularly evident in consecutive games with Cleveland where we were severely outmanned.  The only things our kids could do was run on unbasketball specific trained legs, shoot reasonably well and not turn it over a lot.  Some times , with a lot of luck, of course,that combination can make a team reasonably competitive.
[/quote] I think it has to do with underestimating HJ. One look at HJ and the opposing team think they have the game won before the tipoff  ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1079379" timestamp="1318281244"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1079078#msg1079078 date=1318268978]
For sure.  If it werent for the move in, we would probably be district cellar dwellers.  Gotta love that luck.  That luck was particularly evident in consecutive games with Cleveland where we were severely outmanned.  The only things our kids could do was run on unbasketball specific trained legs, shoot reasonably well and not turn it over a lot.  Some times , with a lot of luck, of course,that combination can make a team reasonably competitive.
[/quote] I think it has to do with underestimating HJ. One look at HJ and the opposing team think they have the game won before the tipoff  ;D
[/quote]

That is my favorite part. ;D ;D ;D  ALthough, one would think someone like Cleveland would make adjustments based on the past.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1079408" timestamp="1318282980"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1079379#msg1079379 date=1318281244]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1079078#msg1079078 date=1318268978]
For sure.  If it werent for the move in, we would probably be district cellar dwellers.  Gotta love that luck.  That luck was particularly evident in consecutive games with Cleveland where we were severely outmanned.  The only things our kids could do was run on unbasketball specific trained legs, shoot reasonably well and not turn it over a lot.  Some times , with a lot of luck, of course,that combination can make a team reasonably competitive.
[/quote] I think it has to do with underestimating HJ. One look at HJ and the opposing team think they have the game won before the tipoff  ;D
[/quote]

That is my favorite part. ;D ;D ;D  ALthough, one would think someone like Cleveland would make adjustments based on the past.
[/quote]Nash, you know how it is with athletes. As long as they know they can jump higher and run faster, they will always under-estimate the slower team. ;)