Basketball Conditioning Question

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="ford15" post="1074611" timestamp="1317905005"]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=89266.msg1074488#msg1074488 date=1317869241]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1073237#msg1073237 date=1317742453]
Someone mentioned to me last week that their kid participate in cross- country running as off season conditioning. Not sure of the reasoning why this is done unless it gives the players something to do while the gyms are being occupied by volleyball games and practice.

I am from the school of thought that cross-country training does not adequately prepare one for basketball. Distance running uses a whole "nother" set of muscle fibers and energy than basketball.
[/quote]

Cross country training utilizes and conditions slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are utilized in sprinting, jumping, all explosive movements , etc. Just compare a long distance runner's legs to a sprinters. There is what's called "specificity of training". In other words if I want to improve my vertical I wouldn't choose seated knee extensions, I would choose an exercise that's works the muscles in the specific manner they will be needed, so I would choose jumping movements, esp. plyometrics. There is also aerobic and non-aerobic activities. Long
distance running is aerobic, and believe it or not basketball is predominantly non-aerobic, short distance sprints with decreased activity in between. Yes, basketball has an aerobic component, however, my lengthy point is "specificity of training". If you are engaging in cross country running to condition yourself for basketball you most definitely will not achieve optimal results.
[/quote]

But at H-J we exercise both sets of muscle fibers!!
[/quote]Oh? Didn't know you guys had more than one gear muscle ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

Ah, talking about basketball again-refreshing. Getting my daily fix.

[bigbasketballfan]

For what it is worth, I asked my son about this since he was on a team that the b-ball coach required the players to run cross country.

He said that he felt that it did several things. 1) it helped them to be better physically prepared for 1st practice. Note: this school doesn't have football. 2) he felt like he could go the whole distance. He said he does not know if was mental or physical, but he felt that having ran CC before basketball did make a difference.

This probably doesn't change anything on this board, but from a players view it did help him.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="nuthinbutnet" post="1074855" timestamp="1317923322"]
For what it is worth, I asked my son about this since he was on a team that the b-ball coach required the players to run cross country.

He said that he felt that it did several things. 1) it helped them to be better physically prepared for 1st practice. Note: this school doesn't have football. 2) he felt like he could go the whole distance. He said he does not know if was mental or physical, but he felt that having ran CC before basketball did make a difference.

This probably doesn't change anything on this board, but from a players view it did help him.
[/quote]I don't think anyone is saying CC does not help. But I'm sure it helps you obtain CC skills ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1074857" timestamp="1317923541"]
[quote author=nuthinbutnet link=topic=89266.msg1074855#msg1074855 date=1317923322]
For what it is worth, I asked my son about this since he was on a team that the b-ball coach required the players to run cross country.

He said that he felt that it did several things. 1) it helped them to be better physically prepared for 1st practice. Note: this school doesn't have football. 2) he felt like he could go the whole distance. He said he does not know if was mental or physical, but he felt that having ran CC before basketball did make a difference.

This probably doesn't change anything on this board, but from a players view it did help him.
[/quote]I don't think anyone is saying CC does not help. But I'm sure it helps you obtain CC skills ;)
[/quote

If the player "believes" it helps him, I can absolutely, unequivocally, assure you that it does, in fact, help him.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1074869" timestamp="1317924024"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1074857#msg1074857 date=1317923541]
[quote author=nuthinbutnet link=topic=89266.msg1074855#msg1074855 date=1317923322]
For what it is worth, I asked my son about this since he was on a team that the b-ball coach required the players to run cross country.

He said that he felt that it did several things. 1) it helped them to be better physically prepared for 1st practice. Note: this school doesn't have football. 2) he felt like he could go the whole distance. He said he does not know if was mental or physical, but he felt that having ran CC before basketball did make a difference.

This probably doesn't change anything on this board, but from a players view it did help him.
[/quote]I don't think anyone is saying CC does not help. But I'm sure it helps you obtain CC skills ;)
[/quote

If the player "believes" it helps him, I can absolutely, unequivocally, assure you that it does, in fact, help him.
[/quote]I agree. he's a better cross country runner ;D

[stevenash]

He is better in any sport he pursues via his own conviction.

[AggiesAreWe]

Football baby, football!!

That's where it's at!! ;D

[Guest tamulonghorn]

it is obvious none of you guys workout very much or you would know that someone training for a 5k will do sprint work a min. of twice a week

i am talking about quarters, 200's, and 100's

what fibers do those sprints work?  your red/fast twitch fibers

distance runners MUST have both red and white muscle fibers developed in order to successfully compete in races

have you ever seen winning times for a 5k?  those times are under 18 minutes

that means they are running sub 6 min. miles back to back to back

now my guess is all of you who are speaking otherwise have never run a sub 6 min. mile or you would know that it is much more a sprint than a jog

and for whoever used a sprinters legs versus a distance runners legs...most nba players have distance runners lefs and not sprinters legs

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="tamulonghorn" post="1074908" timestamp="1317926645"]
it is obvious none of you guys workout very much or you would know that someone training for a 5k will do sprint work a min. of twice a week

i am talking about quarters, 200's, and 100's

what fibers do those sprints work?  your red/fast twitch fibers

distance runners MUST have both red and white muscle fibers developed in order to successfully compete in races

have you ever seen winning times for a 5k?  those times are under 18 minutes

that means they are running sub 6 min. miles back to back to back

now my guess is [b]all of you who are speaking otherwise have never run a sub 6 min. mile[/b] or you would know that it is much more a sprint than a jog

and for whoever used a sprinters legs versus a distance runners legs...most nba players have distance runners lefs and not sprinters legs
[/quote]


I can only speak for me, but the thought of running a mile under 6 minutes has never crossed my mind. Just running a mile never enters my thoughts.

Oh, and I am happy to state that fact!! ;D

[Guest tamulonghorn]

you didnt have to state it we already knew

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="tamulonghorn" post="1074916" timestamp="1317927212"]
you didnt have to state it we already knew
[/quote]

But you probably didn't know I was happy about it. ;)

[Guest tamulonghorn]

oh i had no doubt

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="tamulonghorn" post="1074918" timestamp="1317927358"]
oh i had no doubt
[/quote]

CD, you should try it sometimes, it saves the knees. ;)

[Guest tamulonghorn]

i know who you think you know i am but i am not who you think you know i am

good try tho

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="tamulonghorn" post="1074952" timestamp="1317930321"]
i know who you think you know i am but i am not who you think you know i am

good try tho
[/quote]

I think I know I am. ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements.

sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1074993" timestamp="1317933166"]
Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements.

sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;)
[/quote]

I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1075016" timestamp="1317935674"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1074993#msg1074993 date=1317933166]
Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements.

sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;)
[/quote]

I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash
[/quote] Nash, come back to earth. Larry Bird is retired ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1075034" timestamp="1317937379"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=89266.msg1075016#msg1075016 date=1317935674]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=89266.msg1074993#msg1074993 date=1317933166]
Basketball is a running sport.  Running occurs in short, powerful bursts with quick starts and stops and also involves continual jumping and landing. And distance running fails to train the muscle fibers for quick, explosive movements.

sOURCE: US Sports Academy & DA DOVE ;)
[/quote]

I have seen many an explosive sprinter on the basketball court who was totally out of gas at crunch time.  Source: Stevenash
[/quote] Nash, come back to earth. Larry Bird is retired ;D
[/quote]

Yes, he is.  He did manage, however, to survive the rigors of the NBA rather successfully without concern for "twitches"

[stevenash]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/swvalley/articles/0706kidsandsports0707.html?&wired

[asary]

Basketball Conditioning

"A former college basketball player shares his thoughts on conditioning"
While I was playing high school basketball a team came out of nowhere in California to catch college basketball by storm. Loyola Marymount University was an amazing team to watch. I grew up in Utah and would stay up as late at night just to watch them play on television. It was a show. The thing that made them most unique was their desire to score lots of points and to put lots of shots up. They wanted to average a shot every 6 seconds. They had great players like the late Hank Gathers, Bo Kimble and a baseball player named Terrell Lowery. They would full-court press, run as fast as possible and score lots of points. They had a shooting guard named Jeff Frier and he was my idol. He was my idol because he was able to shoot whenever and wherever he wanted to. It was crazy to watch. They were coached by Paul Westhead who used to coach the Los Angeles Lakers when Magic Johnson was playing. Westhead was interviewed on ESPN and gave his secret to how his team could play this way. It was no surprise that the answer was conditioning. How he conditioned them was what set them apart from all the other Division 1 college basketball teams.

Westhead described making conditioning something that wasn't associated with punishment. Instead he tied it to playing time. Nobody could play on his team if they weren't in shape. If you ever watched them you know what I'm talking about. His off-season workouts were grueling, but the players knew if they wanted to play that had they had to sacrafice. In season was just as bad, but the key to truly conditioning players is to make certain that it isn't a punishment but something that is directly tied to playing time. Nothing impresses a coach more than a player who is in shape. It shows dedication, responsibility and that the player cares about his or her basketball career.

Then he focused on the conditioning not being strictly lines or ladders, but associated directly with basketball. Meaning that many of the drills for conditioning were done while backpedaling or doing defensive drills or running fast breaks. Players were asked to jump rope because of its direct correlation to basketball. [b]I thought often about all the conditioning that I did that wasn't basketball related and it made me understand the true point behind conditioning. [/b]The best coaches I ever played for were coaches that timed drills and segments of practice and everything was done full speed or as they called it "basketball speed".

[asary]

Tamulonghorn:

  NBA players do not have sprinters legs because they train differently. I was comparing sprinters to long distance runners. My point to be made was specificity of training. Also whether you run a mile in 12 minutes or under 6 minutes it is still primarily an aerobic activity.....basketball is predominantly anaerobic. Again, specificity of training. Lastly, I agree 5k runners include sprint work, can you tell me why??

[Guest tamulonghorn]

thats odd last i checked anaerobis had to do with heart rate and not what exercise it is

[asary]

[quote name="tamulonghorn" post="1075149" timestamp="1317948048"]
thats odd last i checked anaerobis had to do with heart rate and not what exercise it is
[/quote]

Aerobic or anaerobic refers to the "energy system" being utilized in the specific exercise/activity.