Kelly football involved in some spying????

[Guest twag11]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1103331" timestamp="1320343776"]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]If he was spying do you think he would have given his name and said he was from Kelly?

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="2% Milk" post="1103447" timestamp="1320349782"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=90855.msg1103331#msg1103331 date=1320343776]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]If he was spying do you think he would have given his name and said he was from Kelly?
[/quote]


That's not even the point. He had no business being there and St. Thomas has to assume that he would go back and give info to Kelly coaches.

Like I said, nothing should come of this, but a case can be made.

[Guest ECBucFan]

[quote name="basketball25" post="1103407" timestamp="1320348077"]
I mean come on now the parent has to be a little bit smarter than that!!!
[/quote]

Agreed! And to think some Kelly folks have a tendency of having a self image of [i]supposed[/i] intellectual superiority, LOL!      :o

[SmashMouth]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1103331" timestamp="1320343776"]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]

[u][b]With all due respect:[/b][/u]
1. St. Thomas has a sketchy case at best. 
2. If St. Thomas pursues this, then they are petty and will reap what they sow.
3. There is no proof one way or the other...plus Kelly got their butts whipped!

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="SmashMouth" post="1103482" timestamp="1320350893"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=90855.msg1103331#msg1103331 date=1320343776]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]

[u][b]With all due respect:[/b][/u]
1. St. Thomas has a sketchy case at best. 
2. If St. Thomas pursues this, then they are petty and will reap what they sow.
3. [b]There is no proof one way or the other[/b]...plus Kelly got their butts whipped!
[/quote]


Hmmm..... that this person acknowledged he was a Kelly person and was watching the St. Thomas practice. That is some sort of proof and that's all that should matter to St. Thomas.

Kelly may not have sent the guy and had no idea the person was going to do this (which I honestly think this to be the case). But, I imagine many a school has said this in their defense of these actions when brought before a UIL or TAPPS board, be it honest or dishonest, and still had some kind of reprimand or violation brought down on them.

[Guest Pirate_pride_07]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1103496" timestamp="1320351680"]
[quote author=SmashMouth link=topic=90855.msg1103482#msg1103482 date=1320350893]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=90855.msg1103331#msg1103331 date=1320343776]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]

[u][b]With all due respect:[/b][/u]
1. St. Thomas has a sketchy case at best. 
2. If St. Thomas pursues this, then they are petty and will reap what they sow.
3. [b]There is no proof one way or the other[/b]...plus Kelly got their butts whipped!
[/quote]


Hmmm..... that this person acknowledged he was a Kelly person and was watching the St. Thomas practice. [b]That is some sort of proof[/b] and that's all that should matter to St. Thomas.

Kelly may not have sent the guy and had no idea the person was going to do this (which I honestly think this to be the case). But, I imagine many a school has said this in their defense of these actions when brought before a UIL or TAPPS board, be it honest or dishonest, and still had some kind of reprimand or violation brought down on them.
[/quote]
Proof of what? Proof that he was watching some kids practice yes but proving that he was there as a spy is something totally different. All St. Thomas has is circumstantial evidence at best. They have proof that a guy that is Kelly parent was watching there practice. Did he have a notepad and pen? Did he ask any questions about the plays or players? No he did not. IMO they have don't have much of a case and if they bring it up to TAPPS they will not make it farther but i'm not a lawyer.

[AggiesAreWe]

With these "smart phones" these days, a lot can be taken with out a pencil and note pad. I doubt very seriously that a spy would ask questions.

Again, I don't believe he was spying, but to say St. Thomas does not have some kind of case, is a mistake.

[Fastball]

Don't know the real story, I have to beleive the Dad's story of innocience.  However I have a question.  What is the difference between spying vs scouting.  I have attended many sporting events via football, basketball and baseball with opposing coaches watching closely, and taking notes.  Also, coaches exchange previous game tapes weekly.

If the Dad was spying, then shame on him and Kelly.  Then again, how many coaches even listen to parents?

[SmashMouth]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1103496" timestamp="1320351680"]
[quote author=SmashMouth link=topic=90855.msg1103482#msg1103482 date=1320350893]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=90855.msg1103331#msg1103331 date=1320343776]
[quote author=magic link=topic=90855.msg1103320#msg1103320 date=1320343230]
here is the true story.  The administrators of this site know who I am and can verify that I would know the truth.  Early last week, one of the Kelly parents was in Houston on business and for reasons unknown to the rest of us decided to stop by St. Thomas and watch practice.  Someone from their staff noticed him and since they did not recognize him sent someone over to inquire who he was.  Not realizing that he was doing anything wrong, he gave his name and said he was from Kelly.  NO coach had any knowledge that this man was going to this practice.  Kelly had already clinched the district title prior to this game.  We had already beaten Thomas the first time we played them.  The main goal for this game was to get some injured players some rest.  That's the story.  There is nothing else.  Someone from St. Thomas has obviously leaked this to the TV station.  I would hope that in this situation, you will see Kelly as a member of the Southeast Texas community and give them your support.
[/quote]


I believe this to be true. Thanks for posting.


[b]BUT!!!!!!!![/b] St. Thomas does have a case here. As far as they should be concerned, this was spying. Kelly coaches and admins can deny it all they want but it doesn't change the fact that a "Kelly" person observed a St. Thomas practice. I imagine there has been many cases of spying where someone was sent but not claimed by the spying team. Again, I don't believe this to be the case, but it would be very difficult to explain before a TAPPS board. It would also be very hard for a TAPPS board to explain to St. Thomas that Kelly did nothing wrong.

I personally believe nothing should come of it but if St. Thomas was to continue to pursue any kind of action, you cannot blame them.
[/quote]

[u][b]With all due respect:[/b][/u]
1. St. Thomas has a sketchy case at best. 
2. If St. Thomas pursues this, then they are petty and will reap what they sow.
3. [b]There is no proof one way or the other[/b]...plus Kelly got their butts whipped!
[/quote]


Hmmm..... that this person acknowledged he was a Kelly person and was watching the St. Thomas practice. That is some sort of proof and that's all that should matter to St. Thomas.

Kelly may not have sent the guy and had no idea the person was going to do this (which I honestly think this to be the case). But, I imagine many a school has said this in their defense of these actions when brought before a UIL or TAPPS board, be it honest or dishonest, and still had some kind of reprimand or violation brought down on them.
[/quote]

I think you are correct in your thinking that probably this "outsider" (non-school affiliation other than his kid goes to Kelly) was acting on his own behalf.  What I disagree with is your assumption that St. Thomas would have any kind of case.

Like I said...sketchy at best.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Fastball" post="1103504" timestamp="1320352249"]
Don't know the real story, I have to beleive the Dad's story of innocience.  However I have a question.  What is the difference between spying vs scouting.  I have attended many sporting events via football, basketball and baseball with opposing coaches watching closely, and taking notes.  Also, coaches exchange previous game tapes weekly.

If the Dad was spying, then shame on him and Kelly.  Then again, how many coaches even listen to parents?
[/quote]


The difference is that it is allowed for coaches to scout games but not practices. Big difference. At practice, you could see what a team maybe preparing for their upcoming game, particularly if it is against your team.

[Kville_Kats]

You know Houston is a pretty big City....Iv'e never went there and came out the same way I went in 2 times in a row... ( course Iv'e got lost in Jasper)...It just seems odd that someone would just say well while I'm down here I'll run by and watch St. Thomas practice..Where were they in relation to the football field.....I was just wondering about that... ;D

[westend1]

Surely this isn't going anywhere.
1) sounds like the parent was straight up with them.  a spy would have lied and said he was a St Thomas fan
2)  Kelly didn't even try to win the game from the sound of things
3) St Thomas won big.

What else do they want?  These dang christian schools are tough.      ???

[AggiesAreWe]

I still have not been given confirmation on if this happened recently or earlier in the season. Yes, St. Thomas won the last game, but Kelly won the earlier game.

Which practice did this person attend?

[Guest Pirate_pride_07]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1103527" timestamp="1320353481"]
I still have not been given confirmation on if this happened recently or earlier in the season. Yes, St. Thomas won the last game, but Kelly won the earlier game.

Which practice did this person attend?
[/quote]
You have a very good point here AAW. I'd like for that question to be answered also.

[Guest twag11]

[quote name="westend1" post="1103522" timestamp="1320353230"]
Surely this isn't going anywhere.
1) sounds like the parent was straight up with them.  a spy would have lied and said he was a St Thomas fan
2)  Kelly didn't even try to win the game from the sound of things
3) St Thomas won big.

What else do they want?  These dang christian schools are tough.      ???
[/quote]I agree.

[mfd814]

Agreed...why would you just happen to stroll by an opponents practice........either not thinking it out or maybe wanted to cause a problem.

[magic]

ok this is the last time I'm going to do this.  Here are the FACTS.
1) The parent attended practice on Monday of last week.  He made no secret of who he was when he was asked.  He also made no effort to hide the fact that he was there because he did not realize he was doing anything wrong.
2) Kelly had already clinched the district title and the game was completely meaningless in terms of their involvement in the playoffs.

[NHS1990]

So that clarifies the record that it happened recently and not before the 1st game these two played. I don't see where this should be persued by St Thomas, but they may see it differently. Most practices are open to the public anyway, no?

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="mfd814" post="1103571" timestamp="1320356716"]
Agreed...why would you just happen to stroll by an opponents practice........either not thinking it out or maybe wanted to cause a problem.
[/quote]

Agreed. I have no doubt that this wasn't requested or approved by Coach Hartsfield or any of his staff as they know the potential consequences and would not risk ruining the best season Kelly has had in a few years.  And I could also see the convenience factor and it being spur of the moment for the parent as the St. Thomas campus is right off of Memorial literally less than a minute outside of downtown.

But I have to say, and I'll admit that this is the cynic in me talking, I simply cannot buy the story of the parent saying that he thought he was doing nothing wrong by peeking in on the practice.  I mean, folks, most of you here have had family members who have played football.  Honestly, how many of you can say that you would have no idea that if you endeavored to witness a practice of an opposing team that it wouldn't cause problems for your family member's team if it were discovered.  Don't see a lot of hands...that is what I thought.

[AshlyHasBeen]

Unless the person is recording the practice and breaking down plays who cares if they are at a practice. I remember people that weren't from PN-G swinging by our practices and it was never an issue. I would hardly call this spying.

[bulldawg64]

true, but most practices are open to anybody,
uncle bob,billy bob,ect; you can  go watch most
practices of any team you elect,as long you
are not scouting for the benefit of the team you
support,heck if it was not like the person
was videoing or writing a scouting report.

[Captaindonkers]

haha...this is ridiculous

Heartsfield the new bill bilicheck? I don't think so

[WeedBegone]

[quote name="westend1" post="1103522" timestamp="1320353230"]
Surely this isn't going anywhere.
1) sounds like the parent was straight up with them.  a spy would have lied and said he was a St Thomas fan
2)  Kelly didn't even try to win the game from the sound of things
3) St Thomas won big.

What else do they want?  These dang christian schools are tough.      ???
[/quote]
I agree
If this guy was a Spy and unless he was being waterboarded, he would not have said he was from Beaumont Kelly. 
I am glad to see a Kelly thread survive three pages.  ;D

[mypooh]

Wow I guess this is new age spying. I'm a proud parent of a PAM player and I travel to Houston on Saturday to watch games from District 19/20 5a. God knows its just called being bored. LOL I have no intent to attempt to scout any of these teams. I also bring the kid with me so he can see what other teams have outside the area. I guess I'm just a bored parent who needs a life on the weekend. I can see if the guy was posted up with a tripod at his car looking like he was sneaking then when they came sped off in his car. I think the cheating thing has gone over the top. What would Kelly coach say to a parent that brings him cheating material as far as scouting and personal ? That parent would basically be saying I help your guys do your job.

[sharkfutbol]

:-X  ???  :o