Looking Forward...

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1110265" timestamp="1320884613"]
[quote author=utfan06 link=topic=91016.msg1110219#msg1110219 date=1320882424]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110123#msg1110123 date=1320877370]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1110116#msg1110116 date=1320877056]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110108#msg1110108 date=1320876567]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1110104#msg1110104 date=1320876268]
Has to put in more time to be considered with the top dogs. But he has done very well.
[/quote]
Okay Dove, then who are the top dogs in your opinion?
[/quote]Active, inactive, etc

I don't know much about the high school coaches in this area but I think there should be specific parameters such as longevity being one. I would certainly list the HJ coach, Kountze, PAM, hmmm?
[/quote]

Active coaches of course!
HJ-ok.
KOUNTZE-Ok.
PAM-Why? What has he accomplished?
Boutte Is not be coach there.
Who else?
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure Travis Williams has accomplished alot... this will be his first year at PAM... but him, joubert,  and Sutherland [b]are all ahead [/b] of English
[/quote]

I think most would agree that these are all good coaches, but what makes one better than the next? Silsbee, HJ, and Kountze have all been good at basketball for 20 years plus, right? How long have these coaches been the HC at these schools?

My argument is that English went in to Vidor and won! No disrespect, but Vidor (nor Nederland, PNG, LCM, BC, etc.) has never been considered a basketball powerhouse, and Vidor has not been good since he left. Not sure of any other coaches in the area who have turned around not just one, but two programs like he did. I'm not saying he is THE best, b/c there is no true way to compare coaches to say one is better than the next. However, I do believe he is amongst the top coaches in the area without a doubt!
[/quote]Let me correct some thoughts from you: They still not powerhouses ;D

[AggiesAreWe]

As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1110745" timestamp="1320939141"]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]Okay Abe, now for your response because it looks like the teacher is teaching the student on this one ;)

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1110825" timestamp="1320941984"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=91016.msg1110745#msg1110745 date=1320939141]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]Okay Abe, now for your response because it looks like the teacher is teaching the student on this one ;)
[/quote]

Dove-If you would read my post before you respond maybe you would understand better.  >:( Did I ever say that 1 coach was better than the other? No. I clearly stated that he is amongst the best in the area. You said that he was not amongst the top dogs in the area. then you went on to say you really did not know many of the coaches in the area. I really don't know how nash was able to handle you for more  than one season.
None of the schools in which english has coached has ever been traditionally a good basketball team. English brought 2 programs from the bottom dwellers to the top of their League within 4 years. If you can find where I said english is a better coach than williams, then please show me that post.
I can't wait to see the expression on your face at the end of this season when Nederland is In the top 2 positions of district 20-4A!  8)

[stevenash]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1110745" timestamp="1320939141"]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]

"accomplishments" is very much a relative term.  Some will say how far you get in the state tournament or how many times you won district is THE definition of accomplishment.  Somebody else might say what Mr. English has "accomplished" over his coaching career is pretty remarkable and I agree.  If one coach  has a constant stable full of athletes and gets to the regional or state tourney frequently, you could certainly say that is an accomplishment or you could say he is/was very fortunate to have such a collection of athletes or, perhaps, both.  If another coach turns a consistently losing team into a district champion without such a stable, it might be viewed as an equal or superior "accomplishment"

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1110745" timestamp="1320939141"]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]

Accomplished more by accolades, yes. Has he taken a school from the very bottom to the very top not once but twice? It could be argued that his accomplishments are better than williams. Just wondering how many division 1 basketball players has williams coached? I know that english has not been so lucky to have coached any.
Like Nash said, some schools are bread with talent every year such as west orange stark in football and port arthur lincoln and basketball back in the day.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1110914" timestamp="1320946053"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=91016.msg1110745#msg1110745 date=1320939141]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]

"accomplishments" is very much a relative term.  Some will say how far you get in the state tournament or how many times you won district is THE definition of accomplishment.  Somebody else might say what Mr. English has "accomplished" over his coaching career is pretty remarkable and I agree.  If one coach  has a constant stable full of athletes and gets to the regional or state tourney frequently, you could certainly say that is an accomplishment or you could say he is/was very fortunate to have such a collection of athletes or, perhaps, both.  If another coach turns a consistently losing team into a district champion without such a stable, it might be viewed as an equal or superior "accomplishment"
[/quote]And HJ has been "superior."  ;D

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1110927" timestamp="1320946608"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=91016.msg1110745#msg1110745 date=1320939141]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]

Accomplished more by accolades, yes. Has he taken a school from the very bottom to the very top not once but twice? It could be argued that his accomplishments are better than williams.[b] Just wondering how many division 1 basketball players has williams coached?[/b] I know that english has not been so lucky to have coached any.
Like Nash said, some schools are bread with talent every year such as west orange stark in football and port arthur lincoln and basketball back in the day.
[/quote]


Well, for your information, no Silsbee player in Williams 8 year tenure at Silsbee signed a DI scholly. A few have gone the JC route.

[Honest Abe]

Thanks for the information! That is why I asked, because I did not know. BTW-How many playoff appearances has silsbee had in the past 25 years? Also, just wondering how many coaches have been in silsbee over the past 25 years?

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1110954" timestamp="1320947274"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110927#msg1110927 date=1320946608]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=91016.msg1110745#msg1110745 date=1320939141]
As far as accomplishments, Travis Williams has done more than Brian English.

Williams has coached teams to 5 regional tourneys, 3 regional finals, 2 state tourney appearances. 6 district championships (outright and co) in past 7 years.

Also of note, Williams has the edge in head to head matchups with English. ;)


Both are very fine coaches, but if you go off of accomplishments, Williams has accomplished more.
[/quote]

Accomplished more by accolades, yes. Has he taken a school from the very bottom to the very top not once but twice? It could be argued that his accomplishments are better than williams.[b] Just wondering how many division 1 basketball players has williams coached?[/b] I know that english has not been so lucky to have coached any.
Like Nash said, some schools are bread with talent every year such as west orange stark in football and port arthur lincoln and basketball back in the day.
[/quote]


Well, for your information, no Silsbee player in Williams 8 year tenure at Silsbee signed a DI scholly. A few have gone the JC route.
[/quote]

[Honest Abe]

Please find the post where I said that these teams are power houses!
I said these teams are not power houses in basketball. Do you ever read an entire post?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1110715" timestamp="1320938214"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110265#msg1110265 date=1320884613]
[quote author=utfan06 link=topic=91016.msg1110219#msg1110219 date=1320882424]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110123#msg1110123 date=1320877370]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1110116#msg1110116 date=1320877056]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=91016.msg1110108#msg1110108 date=1320876567]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1110104#msg1110104 date=1320876268]
Has to put in more time to be considered with the top dogs. But he has done very well.
[/quote]
Okay Dove, then who are the top dogs in your opinion?
[/quote]Active, inactive, etc

I don't know much about the high school coaches in this area but I think there should be specific parameters such as longevity being one. I would certainly list the HJ coach, Kountze, PAM, hmmm?
[/quote]

Active coaches of course!
HJ-ok.
KOUNTZE-Ok.
PAM-Why? What has he accomplished?
Boutte Is not be coach there.
Who else?
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure Travis Williams has accomplished alot... this will be his first year at PAM... but him, joubert,  and Sutherland [b]are all ahead [/b] of English
[/quote]

I think most would agree that these are all good coaches, but what makes one better than the next? Silsbee, HJ, and Kountze have all been good at basketball for 20 years plus, right? How long have these coaches been the HC at these schools?

My argument is that English went in to Vidor and won! No disrespect, but Vidor (nor Nederland, PNG, LCM, BC, etc.) has never been considered a basketball powerhouse, and Vidor has not been good since he left. Not sure of any other coaches in the area who have turned around not just one, but two programs like he did. I'm not saying he is THE best, b/c there is no true way to compare coaches to say one is better than the next. However, I do believe he is amongst the top coaches in the area without a doubt!
[/quote]Let me correct some thoughts from you: They still not powerhouses ;D
[/quote]

[AggiesAreWe]

Since 1987 (last 25 years) Silsbee has only missed the basketball playoffs 3 times. They have not missed the playoffs since dropping down to 3A ('04-'05), currently on a 7 year run.

If you go back further in Silsbee's history as a 4A team, they went to the state tourney 3 other times (5 total now) and made the playoffs every year from '82-86.

In the '70's where only the district champion advanced, Silsbee only missed the playoffs '77.

[Honest Abe]

Thanks! You validated my point for me. Silsbee has been good at basketball for more than 35 years. Between Vidor and Nederland, they have been to the playoffs for a combined 6 times during that span.
English was the coach for 5 of those 6 years.  ;)

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1111034" timestamp="1320951411"]
Since 1987 (last 25 years) Silsbee has only missed the basketball playoffs 3 times. They have not missed the playoffs since dropping down to 3A ('04-'05), currently on a 7 year run.

If you go back further in Silsbee's history as a 4A team, they went to the state tourney 3 other times (5 total now) and made the playoffs every year from '82-86.

In the '70's where only the district champion advanced, Silsbee only missed the playoffs '77.
[/quote]

[BLUEDOVE3]

Which is like comparing Elvis to Justin Beaver (sp?)  ::)

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1111047" timestamp="1320951811"]
Thanks! You validated my point for me. Silsbee has been good at basketball for more than 35 years. Between Vidor and Nederland, they have been to the playoffs for a combined 6 times during that span.
English was the coach for 5 of those 6 years.  ;)

[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=91016.msg1111034#msg1111034 date=1320951411]
Since 1987 (last 25 years) Silsbee has only missed the basketball playoffs 3 times. They have not missed the playoffs since dropping down to 3A ('04-'05), currently on a 7 year run.

If you go back further in Silsbee's history as a 4A team, they went to the state tourney 3 other times (5 total now) and made the playoffs every year from '82-86.

In the '70's where only the district champion advanced, Silsbee only missed the playoffs '77.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[stevenash]

Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1111202" timestamp="1320956743"]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]

Agreed 100%!!!

Good post.

[BADSANTA]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1111034" timestamp="1320951411"]
Since 1987 (last 25 years) Silsbee has only missed the basketball playoffs 3 times. They have not missed the playoffs since dropping down to 3A ('04-'05), currently on a 7 year run.

If you go back further in Silsbee's history as a 4A team, they went to the state tourney 3 other times (5 total now) and made the playoffs every year from '82-86.

In the '70's where only the district champion advanced, Silsbee only missed the playoffs '77.
[/quote]

I think the last time Silsbee missed the playoffs was like 99/00. Silsbee hasn't had any D1 layers since I think Eddie Fobbs.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1111202" timestamp="1320956743"]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]In other words you still feel Sutherland comes out on top ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1112426" timestamp="1321020578"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1111202#msg1111202 date=1320956743]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]In other words you still feel Sutherland comes out on top ;D
[/quote]

THe point I was trying to convey is that it is impossible to pick the top.  My guess is that there are several in this area who are all valid contenders for that honor and that is about as close as you can get

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1112463" timestamp="1321022349"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1112426#msg1112426 date=1321020578]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1111202#msg1111202 date=1320956743]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]In other words you still feel Sutherland comes out on top ;D
[/quote]

THe point I was trying to convey is that it is impossible to pick the top.  My guess is that there are several in this area who are all valid contenders for that honor and that is about as close as you can get
[/quote]

Apparently some people cannot understand that point Nash, no matter how simple one tries to explain it.  :)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1112463" timestamp="1321022349"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1112426#msg1112426 date=1321020578]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1111202#msg1111202 date=1320956743]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]In other words you still feel Sutherland comes out on top ;D
[/quote]

THe point I was trying to convey is that it is impossible to pick the top.  My guess is that there are several in this area who are all valid contenders for that honor and that is about as close as you can get
[/quote]But in the end HJ is tops ;) This is what you get when you go to a tea party luncheon in Lake Charles and not invite me ;D

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1112491" timestamp="1321023838"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1112463#msg1112463 date=1321022349]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=91016.msg1112426#msg1112426 date=1321020578]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1111202#msg1111202 date=1320956743]
Mr. English is one of the top coaches in the area whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not.  As far as determining whether he, or anybody else is the best coach, there simply is NO WAY to quantify that.  You can argue all day about whether Coach K or Bobby Knight or Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson is the best coach and there is no way to reach an unarguable conclusion.
[/quote]In other words you still feel Sutherland comes out on top ;D
[/quote]

THe point I was trying to convey is that it is impossible to pick the top.  My guess is that there are several in this area who are all valid contenders for that honor and that is about as close as you can get
[/quote]

Apparently some people cannot understand that point Nash, no matter how simple one tries to explain it.  :)
[/quote] ;D 8)

[stevenash]

I know this stuff very well.  I once was selected as fourth runnerup in a little Dribblers Coach of the Year Contest and it is totally irrelevant that there were only four teams in my division.  Furthermore, I  have, over the past 15 years, confirmed that the "crowds" at those games were comprised mostly of individuals wanting to see how many techs I would get.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1112548" timestamp="1321026179"]
I know this stuff very well.  I once was selected as fourth runnerup in a little Dribblers Coach of the Year Contest and it is totally irrelevant that there were only four teams in my division.  Furthermore, I  have, over the past 15 years, confirmed that the "crowds" at those games were comprised mostly of individuals wanting to see how many techs I would get.
[/quote]Hey, you still came in fourth place. Its all about perception and marketing ;)

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1112548" timestamp="1321026179"]
I know this stuff very well.  [b]I once was selected as fourth runnerup[/b] in a little Dribblers Coach of the Year Contest and it is totally irrelevant that there were only four teams in my division.  Furthermore, I  have, over the past 15 years, confirmed that the "crowds" at those games were comprised mostly of [b]individuals wanting to see how many techs I would get.[/b]
[/quote]

Congrats on the award Nash!  ;)

That's too funny! ;D Are you kinda like Bobby Knight?

[stevenash]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1112565" timestamp="1321026692"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=91016.msg1112548#msg1112548 date=1321026179]
I know this stuff very well.  [b]I once was selected as fourth runnerup[/b] in a little Dribblers Coach of the Year Contest and it is totally irrelevant that there were only four teams in my division.  Furthermore, I  have, over the past 15 years, confirmed that the "crowds" at those games were comprised mostly of [b]individuals wanting to see how many techs I would get.[/b]
[/quote]

Congrats on the award Nash!  ;)

That's too funny! ;D Are you kinda like Bobby Knight?
[/quote]

Are you kidding?  THe only difference between  me and Knight is that I threw benches on the court instead of chairs.