Beginning game prayer - GREAT JOB VIDOR

[mat]

[quote name="SFA85" post="1120311" timestamp="1321473800"]
Injuries, winner, losers.  No god in that.  No god in sports but if it makes your feel good and pious, continue.  I'll continue to not stand, not bow, and walk around during the fantasy portion of the ball game.....
[/quote]
I respect your choice to not participate in the prayer and I also respect your willingness to accept other’s choice to continue prayer. However it really bothers me (for your sake) your callousness towards God. He has a lot to offer way beyond emotion.

[bulldog1984]

Just a reminder.. every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that he is Lord !!  Believe or not  its your choice , so im going to keep pushing prayer every time i can cause God knows we need it.

[GoDogs27]

[quote name="Coach Comeaux" post="1120356" timestamp="1321476350"]
[quote author=bulldog1984 link=topic=91617.msg1120341#msg1120341 date=1321475488]
Sorry to affend you dog 27, im sure your a good citizen but thats whats wrong with some people they think just because they are good citizens or just good people they will make it to heaven but i must tell you what Jesus Christ has to say about that... NO ONE IS GOOD  not one so all the things you think you do good he doesnt recongnize unless you accept him as your savior.. I think thats where your missing the point . Go Dogs  and keep praying !
[/quote]

I don't think in any of his post he ever said whether or not he was a Christian.... I think the only point he is arguing is having to listen to a prayer .... If I missed him declaring one way or another then oops ;-D

I think this argument is getting off the topic it started about.... but hey don't most LOL...

I will simply back out and say We will have to agree to disagree on this subject .... I have no ill feelings towards anyones believes or non believes... it is not my job to sit in judgment of anyone that believes differently than me.... I will continue with my believes and everyone else continue with yours....
[/quote]

Lol thank you coach. I never ever said anything about what I believed or didnt believe. This isnt about Christianity or Buddhism or Islam, at least not directly. Nobody ever said anything about heaven or hell either or what will "get me there." Thats the difference between me and most religious people. I dont do good deeds just because I think it will save my a$$.. I do them because it betters the world we live in now. I wont waste my time singing songs and clapping my hands at the sky. That doesnt help people or society. Thats MY opinion which I am sure most disagree with and thats fine. The overall emotion we have to have is tolerance. For a Christian to say that anyone who does not accept Jesus Christ as their savior is going to hell, is just as bad as a Muslim saying that all Christians should die because Christianity is the wrong religion. Its stooping down to that same level anyway. Nobody, and I mean nobody has the right to shove their religion down anyones throat and pass it off as truth. I love to ask people how they know that Christianity is the "right" religion.. 99% of the time the answer is always, "because the bible says so." Need I say more on that? And I appreciate the nice gestures, but I dont NEED any prayers or NEED any guidance lol. Im not a "lost soul" needing salvation. The point here is about prayer before games, and what I NEED is for people to respect this country we live in and the laws of the land. When the supreme court recognizes the U.S. as a Christian nation, then by all means lets hold hands and have the Lord's Supper on Friday Nights... otherwise dont say a prayer unless you expect to have a Christian prayer, a jewish prayer, a buddhist prayer, a muslim prayer, etc....

[bulldog1984]

Whatever you say... Just remember my last post because one day you just might need him and he wont be there !

[GoDogs27]

[quote name="bulldog1984" post="1120438" timestamp="1321480242"]
Whatever you say... Just remember my last post because one day you just might need him and he wont be there !
[/quote]

Then I feel sorry for you. That's not the kind of God I would want to trust in anyway. Not one that turns his back on me. The God I believe in is always there for me.

[bulldog1984]

Good luck in that .  My hope is you find the truth because i dont wish no one to go to he..  and will always pray for the lost !

[SFA85]

[quote name="mat" post="1120386" timestamp="1321477603"]
[quote author=SFA85 link=topic=91617.msg1120311#msg1120311 date=1321473800]
Injuries, winner, losers.  No god in that.  No god in sports but if it makes your feel good and pious, continue.  I'll continue to not stand, not bow, and walk around during the fantasy portion of the ball game.....
[/quote]
I respect your choice to not participate in the prayer and I also respect your willingness to accept other’s choice to continue prayer. However it really bothers me (for your sake) your callousness towards God. He has a lot to offer way beyond emotion.
[/quote]

Don't be bothered Mat.  I'm good....

[Purple Runs Deep]

"Two working hands accomplish much more than a thousand hands clasped in prayer." IMO this is the harsh reality of life.... Google "Eric LeGrand".... where did prayer get anyone that night? Is that the will of a loving God?

[SmashMouth]

[quote name="GoDogs27" post="1120454" timestamp="1321480847"]
[quote author=bulldog1984 link=topic=91617.msg1120438#msg1120438 date=1321480242]
Whatever you say... Just remember my last post because one day you just might need him and he wont be there !
[/quote]

Then I feel sorry for you. That's not the kind of God I would want to trust in anyway. Not one that turns his back on me. The God I believe in is always there for me.
[/quote]

...But it's you turning YOUR back on Him...

[texas2step4u]

I seem to recall an NFL game that had a Muslim prayer over the loud speaker after 9-11.  So it does happen, but doubt it would happen around here.  There just arent enough Muslims to make it happen.  I do know this without any doubt......as long as their are tests in school, there will be prayer in school. 

I remember when the ruling came down in 2000 and Vidor adhered to the law for a season or two.  Heck, we even made an announcement about it saying that we disagreed with it and had a moment of silence.  Shortly after that, somebody in Vidor decided that we run the schools, we get to decide.  We dont care what other people think.  I like that.  Makes me proud to be a Pirate.  I may have graduated 30 years ago, but once a Pirate, always a Pirate.

[tvc184]

[quote name="texas2step4u" post="1120480" timestamp="1321482943"]

I seem to recall an NFL game that had a Muslim prayer over the loud speaker after 9-11.  So it does happen, .............  I do know this without any doubt......as long as their are tests in school, there will be prayer in school. 

[/quote]

The NFL or the networks are not public schools funded by taxpayer's money. They can do as they wish. There simply is no comparison.

And again, you can pray in school all you want and even proclaim it. It just can't be legally school directed.

[Campee]

[quote name="invictus" post="1119094" timestamp="1321390195"]
I don't agree.

There is a separation of church and state, period.  Pray on your own all you want, but I shouldn't have to listen to it.
[/quote]


One day you may have wished you had listened to a few prayers and maybe said a few yourself... and that day will come!!!

[bulldog1984]

So your saying if a student says a prayer in Jesus name on the PA  its against the law? I thought it was against the law if its a teacher or other school administrator ? Just asking ....

[GoDogs27]

[quote name="Campee" post="1120489" timestamp="1321483734"]
[quote author=invictus link=topic=91617.msg1119094#msg1119094 date=1321390195]
I don't agree.

There is a separation of church and state, period.  Pray on your own all you want, but I shouldn't have to listen to it.
[/quote]


One day you may have wished you had listened to a few prayers and maybe said a few yourself... and that day will come!!!
[/quote]

Prime example of why a lot of people wont go to church nor listen to people like you. Dont tell me what i should or shouldnt do. You just do you and ill do me. Dont worry about what im doing with my life. I grew up going to church and i can say with first hand experience that i was and am a better person than most people i came across in the religious sector of society at least in terms of morals, respect, and how i treat other people. Nobody is perfect, i understand that. I just think its funny when someone beats the door down to the church every sunday and then lies, drinks, cheats, judges, an gossips on a regular basis without correcting their wrongs. They just show up to church and all is forgiven. Wash, rinse, and repeat. For as long as there have been humans, good people have done good things and evil people have done evil things. But for good people to do evil things... Well that requires religion...

[Kville_Kats]

GoDogs27  I think you are just enjoying the attention you are getting off this thread..lol  So people if you want to keep arguing do so...If you want to put out the fire remove the fuel.... ;)

[GoDogs27]

I dont need nor want attention. Im not the only one posting with the same viewpoint. I just have my opinions and experiences and I bring them to this forum. The thread got way off topic but ill end my rant here and just say that this is one of those things we will never change each others views on so lets just coexist. I apologize if i have offended anyone with my posts. I dont always agree with others views but i respect them 100%. THAT is what America is about and should be about. I cant change what a school or student says before a game. If its a prayer then its illegal, bottom line. Until that changes, I cant support "the majority's" wishes. I just dont want either side to be bitter about the other side.

[tinman]

[quote name="invictus" post="1119094" timestamp="1321390195"]
I don't agree.

There is a separation of church and state, period.  Pray on your own all you want, but I shouldn't have to listen to it.
[/quote]  Why do we have to tolerent of your wishes when you are in the minority?  Why do we have to deny our God because you don't believe?  This country was founded on prayer.  Seperation of Church and State only ment that a state cannot force a certain religion on someone as the church of England was doing at that time.  If you don't want to hear the prayer, just humm.  May God bless you.

[tinman]

[quote name="Coach Comeaux" post="1119223" timestamp="1321397534"]
[quote author=Coach Comeaux link=topic=91617.msg1119222#msg1119222 date=1321397348]
[quote author=invictus link=topic=91617.msg1119094#msg1119094 date=1321390195]
I don't agree.

There is a separation of church and state, period.  Pray on your own all you want, but I shouldn't have to listen to it.
[/quote]AMEN!

The separation of church and state was only to keep the church from running the state.... as you express your freedom of right to speech we have to listen to it and no one bitches.... so why can you not afford us the same?
[/quote]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The concept of the separation of church and state refers to the distance in the relationship between organized religion and the nation state. The term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state," as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. The original text reads: "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Jefferson reflected his frequent speaking theme that the government is not to interfere with religion
[/quote]

[tinman]

[quote name="tvc184" post="1119235" timestamp="1321398314"]
In 2000 in a 6-3 vote the US Supreme Court in Santa Fe (TX) Independent School District v. Jane Doe ruled that a policy "allowing" student led prayer over the PA system violates the Constitution.

A student (or anyone else) can stand up in the audience and say a prayer and everyone can join or refuse at their own discretion. Students can pray on their own in class or at sporting events like taking a knee with the team after coming onto the field. Those are protected speech.

Saying a prayer over the PA system however is unlawful per the 2000 ruling and is not considered private speech.

I don't agree with it but the high court has ruled. When Vidor allows such, it appears that they are violating a court order. In as such, if someone sues Vidor, they will likely win and Vidor might be held in contempt of court for each occurrence.

Until someone complains and files a legal action, pray away on over the loud speakers but they aren't on good legal footing if push comes to shove.

Nederland basically has a prayer before the game without using God or Jesus Christ. It is something like, "We ask for guidance and wisdom, we ask for safety for participants and spectators ...." and so on. It just does not end with "...in Jesus name we pray...." or by invoking God.
[/quote]The current make up of the court would probaly dissagree with the 2000 court.

[bone]

[quote name="AirForceDad" post="1120654" timestamp="1321496195"]
[quote author=invictus link=topic=91617.msg1119094#msg1119094 date=1321390195]
I don't agree.

There is a separation of church and state, period.  Pray on your own all you want, but I shouldn't have to listen to it.
[/quote]  Why do we have to tolerent of your wishes when you are in the minority?  Why do we have to deny our God because you don't believe?  This country was founded on prayer.  Seperation of Church and State only ment that a state cannot force a certain religion on someone as the church of England was doing at that time.  If you don't want to hear the prayer, just humm.  May God bless you.
[/quote] ;)

[mat]

[quote name="GoDogs27" post="1120433" timestamp="1321479978"]
[quote author=Coach Comeaux link=topic=91617.msg1120356#msg1120356 date=1321476350]
[quote author=bulldog1984 link=topic=91617.msg1120341#msg1120341 date=1321475488]
Sorry to affend you dog 27, im sure your a good citizen but thats whats wrong with some people they think just because they are good citizens or just good people they will make it to heaven but i must tell you what Jesus Christ has to say about that... NO ONE IS GOOD  not one so all the things you think you do good he doesnt recongnize unless you accept him as your savior.. I think thats where your missing the point . Go Dogs  and keep praying !
[/quote]

I don't think in any of his post he ever said whether or not he was a Christian.... I think the only point he is arguing is having to listen to a prayer .... If I missed him declaring one way or another then oops ;-D

I think this argument is getting off the topic it started about.... but hey don't most LOL...

I will simply back out and say We will have to agree to disagree on this subject .... I have no ill feelings towards anyones believes or non believes... it is not my job to sit in judgment of anyone that believes differently than me.... I will continue with my believes and everyone else continue with yours....
[/quote]

Lol thank you coach. I never ever said anything about what I believed or didnt believe. This isnt about Christianity or Buddhism or Islam, at least not directly. Nobody ever said anything about heaven or heck either or what will "get me there." Thats the difference between me and most religious people. I dont do good deeds just because I think it will save my censored.. I do them because it betters the world we live in now. I wont waste my time singing songs and clapping my hands at the sky. That doesnt help people or society. Thats MY opinion which I am sure most disagree with and thats fine. The overall emotion we have to have is tolerance. For a Christian to say that anyone who does not accept Jesus Christ as their savior is going to heck, is just as bad as a Muslim saying that all Christians should die because Christianity is the wrong religion. Its stooping down to that same level anyway. Nobody, and I mean nobody has the right to shove their religion down anyones throat and pass it off as truth. I love to ask people how they know that Christianity is the "right" religion.. 99% of the time the answer is always, "because the bible says so." Need I say more on that? And I appreciate the nice gestures, but I dont NEED any prayers or NEED any guidance lol. Im not a "lost soul" needing salvation. The point here is about prayer before games, and what I NEED is for people to respect this country we live in and the laws of the land. When the supreme court recognizes the U.S. as a Christian nation, then by all means lets hold hands and have the Lord's Supper on Friday Nights... otherwise dont say a prayer unless you expect to have a Christian prayer, a jewish prayer, a buddhist prayer, a muslim prayer, etc....
[/quote]

Well coach, I think he cleared things up

[robanadana]

[quote name="baddog" post="1119847" timestamp="1321452019"]
Folks, this is not really about prayer at all. It is simply the fact that the good people of this country have to bend over backwards for the few crybabies in the world  so as not to offend. I'm sick of it, to be honest. I'm not going to change the way I live to accommodate the minority. I am also not going to shut my pie hole and listen to you cry because it is "politically correct". Times are changing. It's time to hear my side and if you don't like it, so what?
[/quote]

I agree as well BadDog. I'm sick of having to cater to the small minority of people who think their ideas are higher and mightier than the majority. I guess we also need to stop publically meeting collectively with Beaumont Ozen and Beaumont Central after every game for prayer in Jesus name. Someone might find these fine young men doing this offensive. It has been one of the healing things our communities have done to heal old wounds. BTW, I'M ONE OF THE TAXPAYERS IN VIDOR!!! It's usually one of the Mormon children who pray at our games. I don't agree with their faith but that's OK; they have the right to believe that way according to the First amendment which was created by our forefathers because governments in Europe had national religions and forced you to believe their way (i.e. the church of England). And, who am I to say their wrong? They stand up for their faith. I want prayer back in schools and in my town, it's the majority of people who believe that. I want prayer back in public places, I want our leaders to acknowledge God and not pay him lip service. To those who claim to know so much about the founding of our nation, I'll be more than happy to debate it with you at your convenience. And I promise I bring a gun to the gun fight. Read the Federalist papers and get back to me about our forefathers separating "church from state". These were DEEPLY religious men and sought divine guidance in the creation of this nation. Lord willing, Montgomery and Aldine I.S.D. will allow the Packard child to pray publically again this Friday. Those who don't want to listen, close your ears and put your mind on whatever it is that floats your boat. You have that right to chose in this country for now. If it gets any further from being a nation with people for whom the majority believe in Christ, it probably won't be. I dare to stand like Joshua, "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Now, there's something to believe in!!!

[Purple Runs Deep]

IMO, the problem with our country today is not the free thinking minorities, its the fools and fanatics that are always so certain that their belief system is correct. For example, the God-fearing politicians that run our nation....if they aren't tweeting their private parts or cheating on their cancer stricken spouses, they are shoving morals down our throats, morals that they themselves don't even follow. Very little good has ever come from religion if any...the fruits of religion are basically people killing each other over who has the better imaginary friend. Just my opinion, but I don't think we will make much progress as a human race until this foolishness is cast aside.

[baddog]

In this country, we have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. People praying at a high school football game does not infringe on your right not to pray. However, saying we can't pray because you don't want to hear it does infringe on our rights to express our constitutional right to worship whomever, wherever, whenever we please.

Like someone mentioned, religion is a strong influence in all societies. It is probably the main and sole reason for most wars throughout history. THAT is forcing your will and religion upon someone, not praying over a loudspeaker.

I'll say it again. This is NOT about prayer. It is simply another step in the attempt to further decay the moral fabric that binds this country. This great country cannot be defeated militarily, so the overtaking must come from within. At the risk of sounding paranoid, this is how the Communists feel.

I believe 9/11 was a wake up call. We realized just how far away we had strayed from one another.

Ok, I have gotten way off topic, but I said what I feel.

GoDogs, I have no ill feelings towards you or anybody else who prefers not to believe. I will say that your moral outlook and caring was instilled by good parenting and the fact that they took you to church when you were young.

[bulldog1984]

I agee 100 percent Bad dog :)