Matt Thomas Toxicology Results

[snafu]

[quote name="Purple Runs Deep" post="1120202" timestamp="1321469006"]
Wow, I never thought I'd see Occam's brought up on setxsports lol...I work with a guy from Vidor that says there are railroad tracks that stretch across the city that you can walk out and chances of someone falling on them are decent. I dont really know the layout of Vidor...any truth to that?
[/quote]

There are 2 sets of tracks that run through Vidor.... not sure which is owned by which railroad... just a sad situation for all involved.... speculation will run rampant with this and the only ones that will really get hurt is family members.... I am sure the rumor mill will fire up.... smh .... just smh.....

[akifan94]

[quote name="tvc184" post="1120207" timestamp="1321469329"]
[quote author=akifan94 link=topic=91706.msg1120199#msg1120199 date=1321468964]
It is reaching. You have no knowledge of this situation personally and are guessing based on your percieved experience.

Hopefully you do not work for the JCSD because then I will know you are reaching. I have seen their work first hand.
[/quote]

Perceived experience? I wonder if you call a doctor, an operator at a chemical plant, a dentist or a brick layer with 28 years in the business as having perceived experience.

If you go back to my first post in this thread you will see that have not guessed at anything except to tell you that someone with a 0.69 alcohol concentration is intoxicated. I never said slobbering falling down drunk and I never said it had anything to do with his death.

Quite to the contrary, I stated that without witnesses, people would be speculating as to the cause. That is hardly drawing any conclusions from direct knowledge of the case.
[/quote]

Ok. Poor choice of words on my part. I would bet he has friends and family that read this board and making a definitive statement that he was intoxicated is irresposible. 

[mytwocents-28]

The definition of intoxication according to the law

intoxication n. 1) the condition of being drunk as the result of drinking alcoholic beverages and/or use of narcotics. In the eyes of the law this definition may differ depending on the situation to which it is applied. 2) In drunk driving (DUI, DWI) the standard of intoxication varies by state between .08 and .10 alcohol in the bloodstream, or a combination of alcohol and narcotics which would produce the same effect even though the amount of alcohol is below the minimum. 3) [b]In public drunkenness the standard is subjective, meaning the person must be unable to care for himself, be dangerous to himself or others, be causing a disturbance, or refuse to leave or move along when requested.[/b] 4) Intoxication as a defense in a criminal case in which the claim is made by the defendant that he/she was too intoxicated to form an intent to commit the crime or to know what he/she was doing, the amount of intoxication is subjective but higher than for drunk driving. There is also the question if the intoxication was an intentional aforethought to the crime ("I wanted to get drunk so I had the nerve to kill her.") Thus, unintentional intoxication can show lack of capacity to form an intent and thus reduce the possible level of conviction and punishment, as from voluntary (intentional) manslaughter down to involuntary (unintentional but through a wrongful act) manslaughter. However, in vehicular manslaughter, the intoxication is an element in the crime, whether getting drunk was intentional or not, since criminal intent was not a factor.

According to this noone can say weather or not was intoxicated or not at the moment because noone saw him before he died. Yes he had .069 alcohol in his blood but that does not prove he was intoxicated.

[uandme08]

It is very unfortunate. I'm a little confused though because in the story on setxhomepage, Dunn says that foul play has been ruled out but he also says that he doesn't believe he was sleeping before he was hit.

[tvc184]

I have read this thread and others on FaceBook and other forums and people see the news media term of "under the limit" and almost automatically determine on their own that it has to be foul play because he was "not intoxicated".

That simply isn't true.

And does anyone know what his alcohol concentration was when he got on the tracks? Just because it was at that level at the time of death, what was it earlier?

It has been brought up that with my almost three decades of dealing with such issues and criminal investigations is speculation yet someone with absolutely no experience in that area can look at a lab report and make a determination.

As I stated, he could have lay there himself to go to sleep, he could have committed suicide, he could have fallen and had an accident or someone could have assaulted him and put him there. Unless there is a witness of the events, it is all speculation.

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="tvc184" post="1120227" timestamp="1321469894"]
I have read this thread and others on FaceBook and other forums and people see the news media term of "under the limit" and almost automatically determine on their own that it has to be foul play because he was "not intoxicated".

That simply isn't true.

And does anyone know what his alcohol concentration was when he got on the tracks? Just because it was at that level at the time of death, what was it earlier?

It has been brought up that with my almost three decades of dealing with such issues and criminal investigations is speculation yet someone with absolutely no experience in that area can look at a lab report and make a determination.

As I stated, he could have lay there himself to go to sleep, he could have committed suicide, he could have fallen and had an accident or someone could have assaulted him and put him there. Unless there is a witness of the events, it is all speculation.
[/quote]
Okay. His BAC was .069 at the time of the accident. The last person that spoke with him was at 3:45. According to his weight he would've "sweated" off and burned off or sobered up about .01 percent each 40 minutes (got that from wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content ). So according to the chart his BAC would've been .074 at the time he made the call at 3:45. So therefore he was not intoxicated when he made the call. Just putting the facts out there.

[tvc184]

[quote name="vp32" post="1120221" timestamp="1321469764"]
The definition of intoxication according to the law

[/quote]

Got to love generic legalese that does not apply.

Since people are so fixated with 0.08 as the per se limit and to believing that you are not intoxicated prior to that, this is the Texas definition of intoxication.
[b]
Texas Penal Code
Chapter 49
40.01 (2) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body;[/b]

There is no limit and all that has to be shown is not having normal mental faculties. So if a person would do something while he is drinking that he would not do while is stone cold sober, he is then intoxicated or in short, impaired judgment only.

The 0.08 per se limit means that there is not even any arguing at that point as the state has deemed you intoxicated. Anything under than down to 0.01 can be intoxicated according to your actions or judgment. He was right at 0.07.

Again, to dismiss his level of intoxication as somehow showing proof that there was foul play is a folly and somewhat destructive.

[snafu]

I think what TVC is trying to say is that no matter what your BAC is .... if it is over .001 you are considered intoxicated.... the .08 is only a reference point to which has been set for judgment impairment.... if you drink 1 beer, 1 shot or a glass of wine... after your first drink you are considered to be intoxicated....


Please TVC if I am wrong correct me on this.... but this is what I am getting from what you are trying to say....

[AggiesAreWe]

A person can be deemed "intoxicated" with a less than .08 blood/alcohol.

Trust me, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE!! ;)

(no driving was involved)

[Purple Runs Deep]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1120254" timestamp="1321471162"]
A person can be deemed "intoxicated" with a less than .08 blood/alcohol.

Trust me, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE!! ;)

(no driving was involved)
[/quote]

;D

[tvc184]

[quote name="Coach Comeaux" post="1120247" timestamp="1321470800"]
I think what TVC is trying to say is that no matter what your BAC is .... if it is over .001 you are considered intoxicated.... the .08 is only a reference point to which has been set for judgment impairment.... if you drink 1 beer, 1 shot or a glass of wine... after your first drink you are considered to be intoxicated....


Please TVC if I am wrong correct me on this.... but this is what I am getting from what you are trying to say....
[/quote]

Pretty close. Some level of impairment is intoxicated Texas law. It can be mental or physical. A 0.069 is not a single beer or glass of wine.

I think that it is somewhat irresponsible for people to draw the conclusion that he did not have enough alcohol in his system to be "intoxicated" so he therefore must have been the victim of foul play. Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. Hopefully the family isn't reading all of these speculations and not on this forum but the half dozen others that are out there.

No matter to anyone's guess as to how intoxicated he was, or anyone's experience or guessing, it is clear that he is a minor and yet was out drinking and a good bit more than a single drink.

To dismiss that as a potential problem or possible cause of this tragic death is not helping anything. I hope that no one close to the family is looking at media headlines and telling them that it must be foul play based on media misreporting.

[tvc184]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1120254" timestamp="1321471162"]
A person can be deemed "intoxicated" with a less than .08 blood/alcohol.

Trust me, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE!! ;)

(no driving was involved)
[/quote]

I rest my case.  8)

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="tvc184" post="1120261" timestamp="1321471352"]
[quote author=Coach Comeaux link=topic=91706.msg1120247#msg1120247 date=1321470800]
I think what TVC is trying to say is that no matter what your BAC is .... if it is over .001 you are considered intoxicated.... the .08 is only a reference point to which has been set for judgment impairment.... if you drink 1 beer, 1 shot or a glass of wine... after your first drink you are considered to be intoxicated....


Please TVC if I am wrong correct me on this.... but this is what I am getting from what you are trying to say....
[/quote]

Pretty close. Some level of impairment is intoxicated Texas law. It can be mental or physical. A 0.069 is not a single beer or glass of wine.

I think that it is somewhat irresponsible for people to draw the conclusion that he did not have enough alcohol in his system to be "intoxicated" so he therefore must have been the victim of foul play. Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. Hopefully the family isn't reading all of these speculations and not on this forum but the half dozen others that are out there.

No matter to anyone's guess as to how intoxicated he was, or anyone's experience or guessing, it is clear that he is a minor and yet was out drinking and a good bit more than a single drink.

[b]To dismiss that as a potential problem or possible cause of this tragic death is not helping anything[/b]. I hope that no one close to the family is looking at media headlines and telling them that it must be foul play based on media misreporting.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying. But, in my honest humble opinion to dismiss the fact that there may have been foul play is not helping anything either.

[bullets13]

he's not dismissing it.  but if there's no proof, there's nothing to be done.  if a witness doesn't come forward, then this will be the end of it.

[SmashMouth]

[quote name="bullets13" post="1120266" timestamp="1321471652"]
he's not dismissing it.  but if there's no proof, there's nothing to be done.  if a witness doesn't come forward, then this will be the end of it.
[/quote]

Look everyone.  Y'all know I have a big mouth on this board, and almost nothing goes without me making some kind of stink.  I will say this...I think we should stop this thread in it's tracks.  A young local boy is dead.  What really happened in "our" eyes is not important.  Let him rest and let his family sort out what they will.  This is a simple request for the sake of the boy.  Thanks.

[dayton]

[quote name="SmashMouth" post="1120274" timestamp="1321472064"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=91706.msg1120266#msg1120266 date=1321471652]
he's not dismissing it.  but if there's no proof, there's nothing to be done.  if a witness doesn't come forward, then this will be the end of it.
[/quote]

Look everyone.  Y'all know I have a big mouth on this board, and almost nothing goes without me making some kind of stink.  I will say this...I think we should stop this thread in it's tracks.  A young local boy is dead.  What really happened in "our" eyes is not important.  Let him rest and let his family sort out what they will.  This is a simple request for the sake of the boy.  Thanks.
[/quote]

I understand what you're saying..... I also understand people, his fam included, wanting some answers. His family will likely never get those answers.

[ndn mom]

[quote name="SmashMouth" post="1120274" timestamp="1321472064"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=91706.msg1120266#msg1120266 date=1321471652]
he's not dismissing it.  but if there's no proof, there's nothing to be done.  if a witness doesn't come forward, then this will be the end of it.
[/quote]

Look everyone.  Y'all know I have a big mouth on this board, and almost nothing goes without me making some kind of stink.  I will say this...I think we should stop this thread in it's tracks.  A young local boy is dead.  What really happened in "our" eyes is not important.  Let him rest and let his family sort out what they will.  This is a simple request for the sake of the boy.  Thanks.
[/quote]
I totally agree. We can't solve this therefore it really needs to be dropped out of respect for the young man and his family.

[T-Dawd]

[quote name="Coach Comeaux" post="1120209" timestamp="1321469392"]
[quote author=Purple Runs Deep link=topic=91706.msg1120202#msg1120202 date=1321469006]
Wow, I never thought I'd see Occam's brought up on setxsports lol...I work with a guy from Vidor that says there are railroad tracks that stretch across the city that you can walk out and chances of someone falling on them are decent. I dont really know the layout of Vidor...any truth to that?
[/quote]

There are 2 sets of tracks that run through Vidor.... not sure which is owned by which railroad... just a sad situation for all involved.... speculation will run rampant with this and the only ones that will really get hurt is family members.... I am sure the rumor mill will fire up.... smh .... just smh.....
[/quote]

I am a conductor for the railroad and frequently travel both set of tracks in vidor. The north set of tracks are owned by Kansas City Southern Railroad (KCS) and the south tracks are owned by Union Pacific Railroad(UP). UP trains run on both railroads. I don't know the exact location of where the incident occured, but this sort of thing happens way too often. I have seen stumbling intoxicated people suddenly sober up when they hear that horn and get the heck out the way. I do know that all trains have cameras on them and they are recording at all times and are stored in a "black box". So when an incident occures the police dept. gets the tape until the investigation is complete and releases it. Youtube has some incidents that you can look at to get an idea of what cameras can capture. And trust me they will be looking at the surrounding woods to see if there is anything unusual. Also, if there is a locomotive facing backwards it is recording too. We get written up for small rule violations when NO ONE is around. Thanks to the cameras. So I hope there are more answers to be found. And STAY OFF THE TRACKS. Vehicle or walking. Someone is always watching.

[Purple Runs Deep]

[quote name="T-Dawd" post="1120292" timestamp="1321472652"]
[quote author=Coach Comeaux link=topic=91706.msg1120209#msg1120209 date=1321469392]
[quote author=Purple Runs Deep link=topic=91706.msg1120202#msg1120202 date=1321469006]
Wow, I never thought I'd see Occam's brought up on setxsports lol...I work with a guy from Vidor that says there are railroad tracks that stretch across the city that you can walk out and chances of someone falling on them are decent. I dont really know the layout of Vidor...any truth to that?
[/quote]

There are 2 sets of tracks that run through Vidor.... not sure which is owned by which railroad... just a sad situation for all involved.... speculation will run rampant with this and the only ones that will really get hurt is family members.... I am sure the rumor mill will fire up.... smh .... just smh.....
[/quote]

I am a conductor for the railroad and frequently travel both set of tracks in vidor. The north set of tracks are owned by Kansas City Southern Railroad (KCS) and the south tracks are owned by Union Pacific Railroad(UP). UP trains run on both railroads. I don't know the exact location of where the incident occured, but this sort of thing happens way too often. I have seen stumbling intoxicated people suddenly sober up when they hear that horn and get the heck out the way. I do know that all trains have cameras on them and they are recording at all times and are stored in a "black box". So when an incident occures the police dept. gets the tape until the investigation is complete and releases it. Youtube has some incidents that you can look at to get an idea of what cameras can capture. And trust me they will be looking at the surrounding woods to see if there is anything unusual. Also, if there is a locomotive facing backwards it is recording too. We get written up for small rule violations when NO ONE is around. Thanks to the cameras. So I hope there are more answers to be found. And STAY OFF THE TRACKS. Vehicle or walking. Someone is always watching.
[/quote]

Great input....thanks

[QueenPirate]

at the end of the day, a young man lost his life way, way  too soon. The only people that deserve any type of explanation or anything else for that matter is the family of Matt Thomas. This thread should not have even started. Speculation and assumption are both beasts that run wild!!

Rip Matt

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="PirateGirl4ever" post="1120304" timestamp="1321473294"]
at the end of the day, a young man lost his life way, way  too soon. The only people that deserve any type of explanation or anything else for that matter is the family of Matt Thomas. This thread should not have even started. Speculation and assumption are both beasts that run wild!!

Rip Matt
[/quote]

Well said. I have to agree with you. Not sure this thread should have been started.
Prayers to the family.

[akifan94]

[quote name="EAGLE07" post="1120308" timestamp="1321473699"]
[quote author=PirateGirl4ever link=topic=91706.msg1120304#msg1120304 date=1321473294]
at the end of the day, a young man lost his life way, way  too soon. The only people that deserve any type of explanation or anything else for that matter is the family of Matt Thomas. This thread should not have even started. Speculation and assumption are both beasts that run wild!!

Rip Matt
[/quote]

Well said. I have to agree with you. Not sure this thread should have been started.
Prayers to the family.
[/quote]

I get the point but it is in the local news and this is a discussion board and that is what people do.

Again I have lost someone close to me way too early with no clear explanation and it was all over the news for weeks. It is tough to deal and hopefully his family can find som epeace.

[liltex]

No comment till after the Pirates stuff da Bears.

[ndn mom]

[quote name="akifan94" post="1120319" timestamp="1321474216"]
[quote author=EAGLE07 link=topic=91706.msg1120308#msg1120308 date=1321473699]
[quote author=PirateGirl4ever link=topic=91706.msg1120304#msg1120304 date=1321473294]
at the end of the day, a young man lost his life way, way  too soon. The only people that deserve any type of explanation or anything else for that matter is the family of Matt Thomas. This thread should not have even started. Speculation and assumption are both beasts that run wild!!

Rip Matt
[/quote]

Well said. I have to agree with you. Not sure this thread should have been started.
Prayers to the family.
[/quote]

I get the point but it is in the local news and this is a discussion board and that is what people do.

Again I have lost someone close to me way too early with no clear explanation and it was all over the news for weeks. It is tough to deal and hopefully his family can find som epeace.
[/quote]
It is in the local news but it really doesn't need to be speculated about on the board IMO. At some point there will be something said that will offend someone and it will go down hill from there.

[the sports guy]

Just remember that he has a family.  Please be kind.  If it needs to be taken down to be kind.....I'm for it.