HJ football fans deserve better

[Guest speechless]

Do your research before you assume you are closer to the program than I am.  Your comments are very blind and very uneducated. 

[One4All]

[quote name="One4All" post="1127510" timestamp="1321986696"]
Everyone knows Hj is a basketball school......... you won't little johnny to play football LEAVE !!!! there are plenty of  nice football programs in the area
[/quote] once again everyone knows Hj is a Basketball school .....

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="speechless" post="1133555" timestamp="1322499129"]
Do your research before you assume you are closer to the program than I am.  Your comments are very blind and very uneducated.
[/quote]
The same could be said about your statements as well speechless.

[86hawk]

as a former student, HJ is and will always be a basketball school.  They have had some recent success in baseball, in the 80's a dominate golf program second to none, and have scratched the football playoffs from time to time.  I went to a couple of football games this year and was shocked to see the lack of support or interest.  I did not play football when i was there, but there was always lots of support for the football program.  I don't think we finished .500, but we still attended the games.  On our varsity BBall squad, i think we had 1 starter from football. 
As a prior post read, football is a means to pass the time.  To think that is not true is to have your head in the sand.  You will have some kids that football, or another sport, will be THEIR number one sport, but for the school as a whole, BASKETBALL is the sport.

[Guest speechless]

I have been part of HJISD for 33 years of my life both as a student and a professional so you guys can argue amongst yourselves all you want but, the fact is, you are severely undereducated when it comes to this topic and specifically saying that the community does not care and just wants to "pass the time until basketball".  The coaching staff is NOT to blame for the football record and the community DOES care.  Bottom line.  Is basketball what HJ is known for?  Sure.  Does that mean they don't care about anything else?  Nope.  The tennis and golf programs are far cries from the 80's and 90's success.  Is that the coaches fault?  Does it mean the community doesn't care?  No and no.  It means that since Pinewood's tennis program shut down due to the economy many years ago....tennis is not as readily accessible to the kids as it once used to be.  Golf and tennis both require quite a bit of money to participate and the economy keeps that from being as possible as it once was.

By some of the comments made one could assume that WOS only "passes the time until football season" or that Bridge City only "passes the time between football and basketball"....and you can go on and on.  Bottom line is when you are on the outside looking in it is very easy to make judgements that are way off base.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="speechless" post="1133724" timestamp="1322509550"]
By some of the comments made one could assume that WOS only "passes the time until football season" or that Bridge City only "passes the time between football and basketball"....and you can go on and on.  Bottom line is when you are on the outside looking in it is very easy to make judgements that are way off base.
[/quote]

Well, see you have your facts wrong as WO-S competes yearly for basketball playoff spots, both in girls and boys play, lost a playoff this year or would have been in the volleyball playoffs, and oh yeah, we are the 3 time defending state track champions.  Yeah, baseball has been a bit disappointing over the last few years, but hopefully the new coach will help that along. Nope, nothing going on aside from football over here in West Orange!

Perhaps someone should practice what they peach and do a little reserach rather than blindly lash out because their lil' feewings got hurt.  Or better yet, they may just try to more closely resemble their screen name.

[One4All]

I know the truth hurts sometimes.......Just face it Hj is A great school also a Basketball school .......... . .

[86hawk]

speechless,  how can you say the community cares? Have you been to a football game lately?  The stands are empty..Some basketball games you can't get into the gym to watch.
I never said anything about coaches not caring.  I don't blame the coaches.  They can only work with the students that come out to play.  If the kids do not want to play, you can't make them.  Last i looked, there are 4 tennis courts at the High School and Pinewood still has 18 holes.  If the kids do not want to participate, they won't.  If the kids don't play or start playing at an earlier age, you can't rely on high school coaches to develop them in 4 years.  Little dribblers starts at the elementary school level.  Kids i went to high school with started golf and tennis as young kids.  HS coaches were not around at that age.  You have to have these programs in place at an early age to develop and create success.
I would love to see HJ become a competitive football program.  But until it develops and grows at an early age (which it sounds like is happening) HJ Football, and other sports, will remain in the background.

[bruno994]

When I think of H-J, I think of basketball and golf.  However, lest we forget that the Hawks play in a district with the likes of Silsbee, WO-S, H-F, OF and BC.  This past season this was a pretty tough district from top to bottom. Year in and year out, Silsbee and WO-S are always tough.  BC, OF and H-F have their ups and downs as well.  BC had them just a few years ago.  H-F contiues to struggle.  It is cyclical, but community support should always remain a constant, whether you win or lose.  These are kids from your community, your churches, sons and or daughters of your neighbors. 

[elhector1]

Having gone back and read the original "letter to the editor", I saw a lot of similarities to something that I am close too (Mods, will you grant me a little lee way?)

While this is high school we are talking about, it very much parallels the college I attended, UTEP.  For years, heck, decades, UTEP was everyone's stomping boy.  We were the doormat, under the doormat.  0-12, 1-11, 2-10 records were the norm.  A good season was considered 3-9. Attendance stank, and every 3-4 years, the chorus went out..."we need a new coach!"  And every 3-4 years, they got one...only to suffer the same fate.

A few years ago, we got a coach "in disgrace".  Mike Price had been summarily fired by Alabama, before even coaching a single game.  Seems he was supposedly in Florida with strippers after a golf tourney(a lawsuit later clarified the situation, and he got some big bucks for slander, but I digress).  He took the hapless Miners from losers to bowl games, and his records have been 9-3, 8-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6, 5-7 since.  He has had the team in 90% of the games they played and lost, and defeated teams like Houston.  However, since the fans got a taste of success in his early years, they think that this is normal, that a team that was always on the wrong end of ugly, should now compete with the likes of SMU, Houston,  and other storied programs.  I am again hearing the chorus of "new coach, new coach", and "bring in a young hungry guy" as the coach.  Like HJ is percieved as a high school, UTEP is also percieved as a college...a basketball school.

The problem is, the singers of this chorus of "new coach new coach", want to get a great "champagne" name on a watered down beer budget.  They want first class results at a 5th class price.  I don't know the dynamics of HJ's administration, but reading the letter from the "fan" in the BE, I can see the same type of thinking...

How do you get a winning program?

1.  Get out there for the kids...whether it's Pop Warner, junior high, or high school, or college, whether the record is 10- or 0-10, get out there for them.  These kids and young men get out there and take their health in their hands to give you a game.  They get sprains, broken bones, concussions, and other injuries for no pay, for only the chance to hear a cheer from you every once in a while.

2.  Don't think the new guy will be any better...sometimes, he can be worse.  Support the program, and you would be surprised how much the program improves.  If you haven't done anything but complain, and haven't gone to many games, you have no room to talk.  That would be like a player getting to play first string without attending practice.   

3.  Get stupid for your hometown team.  The colors, the spirit stickers, whatever.  Let those kids see the community behind them.  Plain and simple, if they see you don't care...why should they?

Good luck HJ...in EVERY sport!

[86hawk]

"How do you get a winning program?

1.  Get out there for the kids...whether it's Pop Warner, junior high, or high school, or college, whether the record is 10- or 0-10, get out there for them.  These kids and young men get out there and take their health in their hands to give you a game.  They get sprains, broken bones, concussions, and other injuries for no pay, for only the chance to hear a cheer from you every once in a while.

2.  Don't think the new guy will be any better...sometimes, he can be worse.  Support the program, and you would be surprised how much the program improves.  If you haven't done anything but complain, and haven't gone to many games, you have no room to talk.  That would be like a player getting to play first string without attending practice. 

3.  Get stupid for your hometown team.  The colors, the spirit stickers, whatever.  Let those kids see the community behind them.  Plain and simple, if they see you don't care...why should they?"

My point exactly.  It is not the coach.

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="elhector1" post="1133823" timestamp="1322516399"]
Having gone back and read the original "letter to the editor", I saw a lot of similarities to something that I am close too (Mods, will you grant me a little lee way?)

While this is high school we are talking about, it very much parallels the college I attended, UTEP.  For years, heck, decades, UTEP was everyone's stomping boy.  We were the doormat, under the doormat.  0-12, 1-11, 2-10 records were the norm.  A good season was considered 3-9. Attendance stank, and every 3-4 years, the chorus went out..."we need a new coach!"  And every 3-4 years, they got one...only to suffer the same fate.

A few years ago, we got a coach "in disgrace".  Mike Price had been summarily fired by Alabama, before even coaching a single game.  Seems he was supposedly in Florida with strippers after a golf tourney(a lawsuit later clarified the situation, and he got some big bucks for slander, but I digress).  He took the hapless Miners from losers to bowl games, and his records have been 9-3, 8-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6, 5-7 since.  He has had the team in 90% of the games they played and lost, and defeated teams like Houston.  However, since the fans got a taste of success in his early years, they think that this is normal, that a team that was always on the wrong end of ugly, should now compete with the likes of SMU, Houston,  and other storied programs.  I am again hearing the chorus of "new coach, new coach", and "bring in a young hungry guy" as the coach.  Like HJ is percieved as a high school, UTEP is also percieved as a college...a basketball school.

The problem is, the singers of this chorus of "new coach new coach", want to get a great "champagne" name on a watered down beer budget.  They want first class results at a 5th class price.  I don't know the dynamics of HJ's administration, but reading the letter from the "fan" in the BE, I can see the same type of thinking...

How do you get a winning program?

1.  Get out there for the kids...whether it's Pop Warner, junior high, or high school, or college, whether the record is 10- or 0-10, get out there for them.  These kids and young men get out there and take their health in their hands to give you a game.  They get sprains, broken bones, concussions, and other injuries for no pay, for only the chance to hear a cheer from you every once in a while.

2.  Don't think the new guy will be any better...sometimes, he can be worse.  Support the program, and you would be surprised how much the program improves.  If you haven't done anything but complain, and haven't gone to many games, you have no room to talk.  That would be like a player getting to play first string without attending practice.   

3.  Get stupid for your hometown team.  The colors, the spirit stickers, whatever.  Let those kids see the community behind them.  Plain and simple, if they see you don't care...why should they?

Good luck HJ...in EVERY sport!
[/quote]
And that pretty much sums it up. Great post elhector1

[Guest speechless]

WOSGrad,

Thank you for proving my point.  It would be wrong for someone to say that about WOS just as it is wrong for you to make that comment about HJ.



It is amazing to me that two guys that don't live or work in the HJ community suddenly know so much about it.  86Hawk...you been gone a long time man.

[Chasmack]

[quote name="elhector1" post="1133823" timestamp="1322516399"]
Having gone back and read the original "letter to the editor", I saw a lot of similarities to something that I am close too (Mods, will you grant me a little lee way?)

While this is high school we are talking about, it very much parallels the college I attended, UTEP.  For years, heck, decades, UTEP was everyone's stomping boy.  We were the doormat, under the doormat.  0-12, 1-11, 2-10 records were the norm.  A good season was considered 3-9. Attendance stank, and every 3-4 years, the chorus went out..."we need a new coach!"  And every 3-4 years, they got one...only to suffer the same fate.

A few years ago, we got a coach "in disgrace".  Mike Price had been summarily fired by Alabama, before even coaching a single game.  Seems he was supposedly in Florida with strippers after a golf tourney(a lawsuit later clarified the situation, and he got some big bucks for slander, but I digress).  He took the hapless Miners from losers to bowl games, and his records have been 9-3, 8-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6, 5-7 since.  He has had the team in 90% of the games they played and lost, and defeated teams like Houston.  However, since the fans got a taste of success in his early years, they think that this is normal, that a team that was always on the wrong end of ugly, should now compete with the likes of SMU, Houston,  and other storied programs.  I am again hearing the chorus of "new coach, new coach", and "bring in a young hungry guy" as the coach.  Like HJ is percieved as a high school, UTEP is also percieved as a college...a basketball school.

The problem is, the singers of this chorus of "new coach new coach", want to get a great "champagne" name on a watered down beer budget.  They want first class results at a 5th class price.  I don't know the dynamics of HJ's administration, but reading the letter from the "fan" in the BE, I can see the same type of thinking...

How do you get a winning program?

1.  Get out there for the kids...whether it's Pop Warner, junior high, or high school, or college, whether the record is 10- or 0-10, get out there for them.  These kids and young men get out there and take their health in their hands to give you a game.  They get sprains, broken bones, concussions, and other injuries for no pay, for only the chance to hear a cheer from you every once in a while.

2.  Don't think the new guy will be any better...sometimes, he can be worse.  Support the program, and you would be surprised how much the program improves.  If you haven't done anything but complain, and haven't gone to many games, you have no room to talk.  That would be like a player getting to play first string without attending practice.   

3.  Get stupid for your hometown team.  The colors, the spirit stickers, whatever.  Let those kids see the community behind them.  Plain and simple, if they see you don't care...why should they?

Good luck HJ...in EVERY sport!
[/quote]

Great post elhector1!

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="speechless" post="1133914" timestamp="1322522873"]
WOSGrad,

Thank you for proving my point.  It would be wrong for someone to say that about WOS just as it is wrong for you to make that comment about HJ.



It is amazing to me that two guys that don't live or work in the HJ community suddenly know so much about it.  86Hawk...you been gone a long time man.
[/quote]

No, see you got that wrong.  I put up the accomplishments of WO-S to show how your statement would have been wrong.  You have just huffed and puffed and done nothing to back it up.

Let me ask you this, if H-J is so behind other sports such as, say, football, why is it that on one instance where the H-J fans had to travel ALLLLLL the way to Silsbee, that Silsbee announcers were able to get an attendance on the H-J side by head count, I believe the figure quoted was 53.  You can protest all you want, it is a community that follows the round ball and nothing else. 

And you know what the sad thing is, you are jumping up and down like I insulted your mother or something when I mentioned in my very first post on the matter that there was nothing wrong with the community getting behind one sport.  My point was if you choose to do that, don't get on Coach Martel when the H-J football team is giving up more points than the basketball team would be able to put up, on a poor shooting night anyway.

[WeedBegone]

[quote name="Chasmack" post="1133920" timestamp="1322523522"]
[quote author=elhector1 link=topic=91960.msg1133823#msg1133823 date=1322516399]
Having gone back and read the original "letter to the editor", I saw a lot of similarities to something that I am close too (Mods, will you grant me a little lee way?)

While this is high school we are talking about, it very much parallels the college I attended, UTEP.  For years, heck, decades, UTEP was everyone's stomping boy.  We were the doormat, under the doormat.  0-12, 1-11, 2-10 records were the norm.  A good season was considered 3-9. Attendance stank, and every 3-4 years, the chorus went out..."we need a new coach!"  And every 3-4 years, they got one...only to suffer the same fate.

A few years ago, we got a coach "in disgrace".  Mike Price had been summarily fired by Alabama, before even coaching a single game.  Seems he was supposedly in Florida with strippers after a golf tourney(a lawsuit later clarified the situation, and he got some big bucks for slander, but I digress).  He took the hapless Miners from losers to bowl games, and his records have been 9-3, 8-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6, 5-7 since.  He has had the team in 90% of the games they played and lost, and defeated teams like Houston.  However, since the fans got a taste of success in his early years, they think that this is normal, that a team that was always on the wrong end of ugly, should now compete with the likes of SMU, Houston,  and other storied programs.  I am again hearing the chorus of "new coach, new coach", and "bring in a young hungry guy" as the coach.  Like HJ is percieved as a high school, UTEP is also percieved as a college...a basketball school.

The problem is, the singers of this chorus of "new coach new coach", [size=12pt][b][color=red]want to get a great "champagne" name on a watered down beer budget. [/color] [/b] [/size]  They want first class results at a 5th class price.  I don't know the dynamics of HJ's administration, but reading the letter from the "fan" in the BE, I can see the same type of thinking...

How do you get a winning program?

1.  Get out there for the kids...whether it's Pop Warner, junior high, or high school, or college, whether the record is 10- or 0-10, get out there for them.  These kids and young men get out there and take their health in their hands to give you a game.  They get sprains, broken bones, concussions, and other injuries for no pay, for only the chance to hear a cheer from you every once in a while.

2.  Don't think the new guy will be any better...sometimes, he can be worse.  Support the program, and you would be surprised how much the program improves.  If you haven't done anything but complain, and haven't gone to many games, you have no room to talk.  That would be like a player getting to play first string without attending practice.   

3.  Get stupid for your hometown team.  The colors, the spirit stickers, whatever.  Let those kids see the community behind them.  Plain and simple, if they see you don't care...why should they?

Good luck HJ...in EVERY sport!
[/quote]

Great post elhector1!
[/quote]

Indeed  a good post except one suggestion. 
Serve the watered down beer first, and then after a few (like 6-9) any Champaigne would be acceptable.  ;)

[BADSANTA]

Face it, kids in Sour Lake would rather play basketball than football. When I look at the talent on the basketball court, I see 4 or 5 guys who could have easily helped that football program. A few more skill players, they could competed in a few games. HJ's football program knows that in order for them to have a good team the have to convince the talent in their hall ways to play more than one sport.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1134002" timestamp="1322528316"]
Face it, kids in Sour Lake would rather play basketball than football. [b]When I look at the talent on the basketball court, I see 4 or 5 guys who could have easily helped that football program[/b]. A few more skill players, they could competed in a few games. HJ's football program knows that in order for them to have a good team the have to convince the talent in their hall ways to play more than one sport.
[/quote]


Funny you mention this. Tonight, I spoke with a few coaches at the Montagne Center after the YMBL press conference and they wanted to know why the Prudhome kid never played football for HJ. We all agreed that he is a very good basketball player, one that will probably play JC or small college basketball, which is fine. But all of us thought this kid could be a DI caliber receiver and could possibly name his school had he played football in high school. Great athlete, but most feel he could have been amazing on the football field.

I said the same about Silsbee's DC Stallworth.

[football]

One hyphenated word tells why some stay in the gym: TWO-A-DAYS!!!  Now there are some that just don't want to play.  Football is not for everyone.

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="football" post="1134177" timestamp="1322540702"]
One hyphenated word tells why some stay in the gym: TWO-A-DAYS!!!  Now there are some that just don't want to play.  [b]Football is not for everyone.[/b]
[/quote]
Amen there.

[Guest speechless]

I have said this before....you base a community's level of support by how many people show up to a week 9 road game at the end of a 1-9 season?  Seriously?

HJ excels in many other areas of school related activities.  If you want to see for yourself come look at the list of state champions on the statue in front of the gym....only a few of them are basketball.  I don't list them because I am not here to get into a pissing match about accomplishments.

Bottom line, you don't live in the community so you have no idea what the level of support really is.  When you win, people show up...when you don't...they don't and that is true of any sport and any school.

[elhector1]

[quote name="speechless" post="1134327" timestamp="1322579107"]
I have said this before....[b][color=red]you base a community's level of support by how many people show up to a week 9 road game at the end of a 1-9 season[/color][/b]?  Seriously?

HJ excels in many other areas of school related activities.  I don't list them because I am not here to get into a pissing match about accomplishments.

Bottom line, you don't live in the community so you have no idea what the level of support really is.  When you win, people show up...when you don't...they don't and that is true of any sport and any school.
[/quote]

There are several terms for what you have described...fair weather fans, t-shirt fans, band wagon jumpers, etc., et. al. I define ANY community that cares about it's kids as fans if they are there for the 1st game or the last, regardless of the record.  This is not HJ specific.  This is simple psychology.  I have coached young teams,  and while it is true that success on the Pop Warner field does not always translate to success on the high school or college field, I will tell you that kids look up into the stands.  They look for their parents and siblings, their relatives, their friends, their classmates, and the community at large.  They know when there is caring there, and kids recognize when people don't give a crap.  (Sorry mods, have to make a point, but correct away, I understand why you need to.)  HJ suffers from a bad case of band wagon jumpers.  You just pointed that out with the portion of your post I highlighted.  Your words, not mine.  Maybe if the community went out of it's way to create a winning atmosphere regardless of record for it's football teams, maybe then could the teams that struggle realize there's more to it than getting on the field and just doing your job.  When you are asked to be responsible for the support of your community, the stakes go up, and your level of intensity does as well.  Try it....can't be any worse than it is now.  You would be surprised what ti can do for the community as well...

[Guest speechless]

That is who does show up.....the parents, and those who have a vested interest.  HJ had a pretty good following this year regardless of their season.  WOSGrad and AAW like to use the Silsbee game as an example but, fail to mention that it was late in the season, on the road, and the first real cold front of the year.  So, yes, there was a poor outing for that game but, overall the crowds were pretty decent at games this year despite the record.

That is why it is bothersome to have someone say "they are just passing time".  There are too many people that it is a slap in the face to and is simply not an accurate assessment. 

I don't like the letter that was published in the BE and think it was inappropriate to publish such garbage.  Unfortunately, that is how the world works today....the media is looking to stir up anything negative because that is what sells.  I find it comical that people that don't even live in a community (or in this posts case in a nearby city) seem to have so many answers/opinions on what is or isn't going on.  Truth be told they know very little and that makes it even more troubling that they come on internet message boards and say things when they are not as informed as they think they are.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="speechless" post="1134355" timestamp="1322580787"]
That is who does show up.....the parents, and those who have a vested interest.  HJ had a pretty good following this year regardless of their season.  WOSGrad and[b] AAW like to use the Silsbee game[/b] as an example but, fail to mention that it was late in the season, on the road, and the first real cold front of the year.  So, yes, there was a poor outing for that game but, overall the crowds were pretty decent at games this year despite the record.

That is why it is bothersome to have someone say "they are just passing time".  There are too many people that it is a slap in the face to and is simply not an accurate assessment. 

I don't like the letter that was published in the BE and think it was inappropriate to publish such garbage.  Unfortunately, that is how the world works today....the media is looking to stir up anything negative because that is what sells.  I find it comical that people that don't even live in a community (or in this posts case in a nearby city) seem to have so many answers/opinions on what is or isn't going on.  Truth be told they know very little and that makes it even more troubling that they come on internet message boards and say things when they are not as informed as they think they are.
[/quote]


Well, in my case I wasn't just referring to the Silsbee game in my past comments on another thread. I actually have family and friends who work for HJISD. They tell me things and I also see things for myself.

I do not think my comments are as "blind" and "uneducated" as you think they are.

You make good and valid points about this season's football team. But I am not just talking about this year's football team. I speak about all of the athletics at HJ over the past few years. IMO, things should be better overall and I personally think is the "attitude" and not the coaching.

[Guest speechless]

Well, you know what they say about opinions.

I see the "attitude" every day.  Yet, I am sure you still think you have a better feel for it than I do.