UIL Looks at CROCKETT vs NEWTON

[Kville_Kats]

[quote name="ChampionEagles" post="1127619" timestamp="1321993086"]
I think this is what the problem with the players playing Friday night was. UIL will determine and notify schools involved. Go Grad, man now that is some research!!
[/quote]

Hey Champ.... When you find out for sure PM me.... ;)

[atb63]

Thanks WOSGrad.

So, it's not just that they were assigned to DAEP, that prohibits them from participating in UIL sponsored events, but the reason must be in the code TX 37.006

"Students who are placed in a disciplinary alternative education program (DAEP) for a reason
included in TEC §37.006 must be prohibited from attending or participating in a school-sponsored or school related activity"

It's still not clear, because the next sentence also states that it can be enforced by district policy.
Man, they have so many exceptions, and if this, then that, coaches almost need an on-staff attorney to understand some of this stuff.  The have enough to worry about with the players, parents, booster club, and the ISD.  LOL!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest 58SHW]

[quote name="atb63" post="1127629" timestamp="1321993456"]
Thanks WOSGrad.

So, it's not just that they were assigned to DAEP, that prohibits them from participating in UIL sponsored events, but the reason must be in the code TX 37.006

"Students who are placed in a disciplinary alternative education program (DAEP) for a reason
included in TEC §37.006 must be prohibited from attending or participating in a school-sponsored or school related activity"

It's still not clear, because the next sentence also states that it can be enforced by district policy.
Man, they have so many exceptions, and if this, then that, coaches almost need an on-staff attorney to understand some of this stuff.  The have enough to worry about with the players, parents, booster club, and the ISD.  LOL!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]

Yes, and it gives them the leadway to do pretty much what they want or dont want when they want or dont want....

It seems I've got an axe to grind with Ned....I don't...I just remember it being said (media) they were to serve 5 weeks...and their attorney got envolved and that was lifted...so probably right about them then becoming eligible again....but that is NOT how the information reads...it says: terms giving to be served....it was not, I bleieve it was only about 2 weeks....

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="atb63" post="1127629" timestamp="1321993456"]
Thanks WOSGrad.

So, it's not just that they were assigned to DAEP, that prohibits them from participating in UIL sponsored events, but the reason must be in the code TX 37.006

"Students who are placed in a disciplinary alternative education program (DAEP) for a reason
included in TEC §37.006 must be prohibited from attending or participating in a school-sponsored or school related activity"

It's still not clear, because the next sentence also states that it can be enforced by district policy.
Man, they have so many exceptions, and if this, then that, coaches almost need an on-staff attorney to understand some of this stuff.  The have enough to worry about with the players, parents, booster club, and the ISD.  LOL!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[/quote]

Well, this is speculation, but my bet is, if the reasoning behind the placement of the students is for the trashing of a computer room as stated above, falls in 37.006 (a)(2)(A) which states:

"Sec. 37.006.  REMOVAL FOR CERTAIN CONDUCT. (a) A student shall be removed from class and placed in a disciplinary alternative education program as provided by Section 37.008 if the student:

(2)  commits the following on or within 300 feet of school property, as measured from any point on the school's real property boundary line, or while attending a school-sponsored or school-related activity on or off of school property:

(A)  engages in conduct punishable as a felony;..."

Because that conduct of destruction of property would fall under Sec. 28.03 of the Texas Penal Code which states:

"§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF.  (a) A person commits an
offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1)  he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys
the tangible property of the owner;
(2)  he intentionally or knowingly tampers with the
tangible property of the owner and causes pecuniary loss or
substantial inconvenience to the owner or a third person;  or
(3)  he intentionally or knowingly makes markings,
including inscriptions, slogans, drawings, or paintings, on the
tangible property of the owner."

Such conduct arises to the level of a felony if: 

"the amount of the pecuniary loss to real property or to tangible personal property is $1,500 or more but less than $20,000 and the damage or destruction is inflicted on a public or private elementary school, secondary school, or institution of higher education." (Tex. Penal Code, Sec. 28.03 (h))

Just as a note, in determining the amount of damage, the Penal Code states:

"When more than one item of tangible property, belonging
to one or more owners, is damaged, destroyed, or tampered with in violation of this section pursuant to one scheme or continuing course of conduct, the conduct may be considered as one offense, and the amounts of pecuniary loss to property resulting from the damage to, destruction of, or tampering with the property may be aggregated in determining the grade of the offense." (Tex. Penal Code, Sec. 28.03 (e))

[ChampionEagles]

All of this is why I'm waiting on the UIL to notify the schools. Thanks Grad.

[ECFAN#1]

WOSgrad sure can come up with some stats. Newton get ready just in case.  ;)

[WOSgrad]

So to boil all of this down, assuming that the offense committed was the trashing of the computer room is if they caused damage of at least $1,500 (which we all know doesn't take a whole lot of effort), they engaged in conduct punishable as a felony.

If so, they MUST be removed from regular class and placed in a disciplinary alternative education program and are prohibited from attending or participating in a school-sponsored or school-related activity.

So they were ineligible to play in the playoff game last Friday against Newton and thus their participation is cause for the UIL to order Crockett to forfeit the game.

[kicker]

Wow. So this might not be over? So, what happens if Crockett has to forfeit? I guess what i mean is, has the uil permitted Newton to practice following the allegations just in case? It's already Tuesday and if they don't rule untill like Thursday, that isn't fair to Newton if they haven't had practice. This is crazy. It's like an NCAA dibocal.

[DoRightTrojanFan]

[quote name="ChampionEagles" post="1127545" timestamp="1321988076"]
This has to do with DAEP (in school suspension) and the trashing of a computer room on Friday. Two of Crocketts players were involved and played then bragged about it on Saturday to one of Newton's players on facebook. Now this is what this is about. No names. If it happened like that it is a violation of UIL rules for the kids to have played.
[/quote]

The key is going to be whether the students were assigned to DAEP (disciplinary alternative education program) or ISS (in school suspension). There is a difference.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="DoRightTrojanFan" post="1127672" timestamp="1321996238"]
[quote author=ChampionEagles link=topic=92048.msg1127545#msg1127545 date=1321988076]
This has to do with DAEP (in school suspension) and the trashing of a computer room on Friday. Two of Crocketts players were involved and played then bragged about it on Saturday to one of Newton's players on facebook. Now this is what this is about. No names. If it happened like that it is a violation of UIL rules for the kids to have played.
[/quote]

The key is going to be whether the students were assigned to DAEP (disciplinary alternative education program) or ISS (in school suspension). There is a difference.
[/quote]

I think it will come down more to timing.  If the act occurred on Friday, I could see Crockett ISD arguing that they had to have the opportunity to investigate and determine the extent of the issue and could not make a placement into DAEP until after the game.  Remember, if the act is one specified in 37.006, there is no disrection, the student MUST be placed in DAEP.

[Kville_Kats]

Iv'e got a stupid question to ask,most of my questions are that way..Why does the UIL write up rules governing schools and then leave so many loop holes in the rules to get around them, that the rules they wrote themselves don't apply anymore... ;D

[ChampionEagles]

I think it will come down to the integrity of the school system. Their investigation in house should be straight forward and truthful in which there should be no need to question further and the UIL should accept it and make a ruling. If not, who knows where this goes.

[AggiesAreWe]

Again, Harmony will play Crockett, Newton plays basketball.


(please get us your basketball schedule, thank you)

[SFAJACK02]

[quote name="Tatum_DirtyBird" post="1126840" timestamp="1321923031"]
[quote author=NOTWENS link=topic=92048.msg1126825#msg1126825 date=1321922195]
let them play
[/quote]

You say "let them play" without even knowing what they may have done?  "Spare the rod and spoil the child", ever heard that?
[/quote]

Haha!!! You know what's coming if it pans out right and if both Tatum and Crockett win don't you!!! LOL Just kidding!!!

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="Kville_Kats" post="1127679" timestamp="1321996947"]
Iv'e got a stupid question to ask,most of my questions are that way..Why does the UIL write up rules governing schools and then leave so many loop holes in the rules to get around them, that the rules they wrote themselves don't apply anymore... ;D
[/quote]Cause it's the mystique of Tx HS football. Lol blame Odessa Permian & Dallas Carter. 

[ChampionEagles]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1127724" timestamp="1321999970"]
Again, Harmony will play Crockett, Newton plays basketball.


(please get us your basketball schedule, thank you)
[/quote]

Why do we even need the UIL since we have this!

[DoRightTrojanFan]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="1127678" timestamp="1321996927"]
[quote author=DoRightTrojanFan link=topic=92048.msg1127672#msg1127672 date=1321996238]
[quote author=ChampionEagles link=topic=92048.msg1127545#msg1127545 date=1321988076]
This has to do with DAEP (in school suspension) and the trashing of a computer room on Friday. Two of Crocketts players were involved and played then bragged about it on Saturday to one of Newton's players on facebook. Now this is what this is about. No names. If it happened like that it is a violation of UIL rules for the kids to have played.
[/quote]

The key is going to be whether the students were assigned to DAEP (disciplinary alternative education program) or ISS (in school suspension). There is a difference.
[/quote]

I think it will come down more to timing.  If the act occurred on Friday, I could see Crockett ISD arguing that they had to have the opportunity to investigate and determine the extent of the issue and could not make a placement into DAEP until after the game.  Remember, if the act is one specified in 37.006, there is no disrection, the student MUST be placed in DAEP.
[/quote]

Wow...you are absolutely right, perfect loophole!

[NewtonNation]

C[quote name="ChampionEagles" post="1127794" timestamp="1322003967"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=92048.msg1127724#msg1127724 date=1321999970]
Again, Harmony will play Crockett, Newton plays basketball.


(please get us your basketball schedule, thank you)
[/quote]

Why do we even need the UIL since we have this!
[/quote]


+1

[WOSgrad]

The chatter that I am seeing on twitter is that even if the investigation finds that Crockett used ineligible players, that Newton would not advance and the Harmony would get a bye to the next round.

This would be due to the late timing of the decision.  Now mind you, this is anything but official, but it is the chatter that I am seeing.

[dustoff03]

If it goes south for Crockett, who is the responsible party?

[MEM]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="1127917" timestamp="1322014136"]
The chatter that I am seeing on twitter is that even if the investigation finds that Crockett used ineligible players, that Newton would not advance and the Harmony would get a bye to the next round.

This would be due to the late timing of the decision.  Now mind you, this is anything but official, but it is the chatter that I am seeing.
[/quote]

Wow, I could definitely see arguments for and against that kind of a decision....I think I'd have to go with letting Newton play whether they've had enough time to practice or not if they are willing to take on the challenge...It ought to be their call..I'm pretty sure their decision would be to strap it up and get after it...

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="MEM" post="1127925" timestamp="1322014792"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=92048.msg1127917#msg1127917 date=1322014136]
The chatter that I am seeing on twitter is that even if the investigation finds that Crockett used ineligible players, that Newton would not advance and the Harmony would get a bye to the next round.

This would be due to the late timing of the decision.  Now mind you, this is anything but official, but it is the chatter that I am seeing.
[/quote]

Wow, I could definitely see arguments for and against that kind of a decision....I think I'd have to go with letting Newton play whether they've had enough time to practice or not if they are willing to take on the challenge...It ought to be their call..I'm pretty sure their decision would be to strap it up and get after it...
[/quote]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but unfortunately the decision lies with neither of us.

[Spherictrey]

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=974&NewsID=1009183&CategoryID=20207&on=1

[ChampionEagles]

Wait on UIL decision.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="ChampionEagles" post="1128111" timestamp="1322053838"]
Wait on UIL decision.
[/quote]

But we all know what the outcome will be. ;)

Get that schedule, please.