Port Author Lincoln....?

[ST413]

Throw Yates out of the equation, they end up getting too many "move ins",  and I don't think there is much of a difference in these communities that you didn't hit on.  Especially in the type of community and type of kids.  To me that boils down to the parents and how they push, although that word could be taken as too strong, their kids.  Sour Lake and Silsbee are small rural communities where a lot of parents take on those values and get their kids more involved in little dribblers etc.  Some of these larger communities seem to kind of push all that aside and let kids do whatever the other kids are doing.  Big cities aree always going to have some talent and a school such as Yates always seems to end up with a lot of it.  You let some of those who would be the talented, in some of these smaller communities, slip through the cracks and you don't have many to replace them with.

[ballin4life]

I think all points are valid.  But to come on here and say, "Where's the talent in Port Arthur?" That is hilarious.  Like I said, I think Memorial being in the playoffs at the 5A basketball level is a fete itself.  No one came on here and blamed any coach for anything.  Yes, we do have our problems, just like every other school.  But with that being said, THIS team, THIS summer, beat a lot of these local schools and finished second in Silsbee behind a Central team with two West Brook starters on it.  Just saying... we don't talk about any other school.  I just think it's not fair that when we talk about talent, it leads to all the problems at Memorial.  Other districts have the same problems as the kids in Port Arthur... just saying.

[BLUEDOVE3]

All are valid points.

[Kountzer]

PA may have all the talent in the world.  Playground ball is just exercise, recreation.  If the talent is not on the court winning games it is wasted IMO.

I haven't seen PA basketball in awhile.  I'm just going by what I see in the papers and on the internet, especially here. 

Also, PA just being in the playoffs, I don't know.  That's good; I'm not knocking.  But I don't have to recite PA basketball history.  You know it better than I do.  There used to be a time when as soon as basketball practice started for the season, and the players @ Lincoln tied up their sneakers, every team and high school basketball fan in the state of Texas took notice.  Those teams in the DFW, in Houston, they all knew about PA basketball being played at Lincoln.  To go from that to 'we make the playoff, that a serious change. 

Please read & hear what I'm saying.  I am not dumping on PA basketball.  I wish coach Williams the best.  I just made statement based on the results, and what I am feeling about the results.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Kountzer" post="1165575" timestamp="1327465538"]
PA may have all the talent in the world.  Playground ball is just exercise, recreation.  If the talent is not on the court winning games it is wasted IMO.

I haven't seen PA basketball in awhile.  I'm just going by what I see in the papers and on the internet, especially here. 

Also, PA just being in the playoffs, I don't know.  That's good; I'm not knocking.  But I don't have to recite PA basketball history.  You know it better than I do.  There used to be a time when as soon as basketball practice started for the season, and the players @ Lincoln tied up their sneakers, every team and high school basketball fan in the state of Texas took notice.  Those teams in the DFW, in Houston, they all knew about PA basketball being played at Lincoln.  To go from that to 'we make the playoff, that a serious change. 

Please read & hear what I'm saying.  I am not dumping on PA basketball.  I wish coach Williams the best.  I just made statement based on the results, and what I am feeling about the results.
[/quote]So no one fears southeast texas basketball anymore ;)

[ST413]

It was asked what is the difference between PA Memorial, Silsbee, HJ, and Yates. One thought that I didn't mention is school pride.  Silsbee and HJ have had success on the court for years and their alummni and towns take pride in that.  That is passed on to their children.  Some of the success stems from that pride and wanting to continue the success.  Lincoln and Hebert had built that in their programs.  Ozen started off at a level comparable to Hebert and quickly gained some of that pride.  Memorial didn't start off as strong and lost some of that from the start. 

[BADSANTA]

PA Lincoln was a basketball factory! I don't know of any high school in the 80's and 90's who had more trips to state. I think Lincoln won state 7 times. I think they appeared in Austin something like 10 times. DYNASTY! Hebert won 3 I think in the 80's.

[Dick Vitale]

11 State Tournament appearances: 1981, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1999

7 State Championships: 1981, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1995

DYNASTY....It COULD be that way today...It very well COULD be...

[ST413]

Hence, built in pride and a desire to be good enough to play on that team.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="ST413" post="1166003" timestamp="1327537985"]
It was asked what is the difference between PA Memorial, Silsbee, HJ, and Yates. One thought that I didn't mention is school pride.  Silsbee and HJ have had success on the court for years and their alummni and towns take pride in that.  That is passed on to their children.  Some of the success stems from that pride and wanting to continue the success.  Lincoln and Hebert had built that in their programs.  Ozen started off at a level comparable to Hebert and quickly gained some of that pride.  Memorial didn't start off as strong and lost some of that from the start. 
[/quote]
There was a REASON why Ozen was able to piggy back off of Heberts success in the early years...They KEPT the school colors, and mascot the same!! EASY...They could have and should have done that in PA to begin with, but they were not as smart as the BISD brass to do so...It was even suggested at the time that they name the school James Gamble HS, and keep the colors purple and gold, and call the Bumblebees....THAT would have done the trick off the bat in 2002 for PA...TJ and SFA alums would have had to understand that this would have been the best move for the community at the time, and followed Beaumont's lead with Ozen...BUT....hindsight is always 20/20...HOWEVER, it COULD get back to the way it was when it was Lincoln...It really could.

[ST413]

That may have been good on the basketball side but they couldn't have turned their backs on TJ' s football past.  Not near as evident as Lincoln bball but still a big part of that community.

[Dick Vitale]

Yeah, but I would tend to think that in the last 30 years, Port Arthur was KNOWN for its basketball program at LINCOLN...IT WAS the community..Smart money would have been to stand on the Lincoln dynasty when they consolidated, especially since it was unwanted and FORCED on the community the way it was...don't you think?

[ST413]

stronger maybe so but would have been a tough sell to the TJ community probably would have caused a little tension.

[BADSANTA]

I say PA should have some how renovated Lincoln. I miss that school and all their wild fans with those umbrellas. They followed their team wherever they played. I remember back in 1989 when Sisbee lost by 2 77-75 in the playoffs. Ii think the game was at PNG or it could have been the year before.

[Dick Vitale]

The Lincoln contingent was actually larger and louder...The tension was there from the jump and still is today! Port Arthur people have sent their kids to NEDERLAND, BEAUMONT and PNG because they REFUSED to allow their kids to go to Memorial....This was BEFORE Memorial even opened its doors in 2002 and it still happens today....YES, TODAY...I just think that taking a page from BISD would have been smart...Name the school James Gamble, make the new colors maroon and gold (for TJ) and call them the Bees still...Compromise would have been better than KILLING the Lincoln tradition outright..

[ST413]

A compromise would have been best.

[AggiesAreWe]

The comparison of Ozen and Memorial is not an accurate one, apples and oranges. Memorial is a consolidation of 3 schools, Ozen was just a new (old) school that officials decided to open and give Beaumont 3 schools instead of two. It was easy for Ozen to come back as the new Hebert and take on it's colors and mascot because they were not having to worry about any other school traditions. PAISD had to take all that into consideration when they consolidated into just one school. The better comparison is West Brook and Memorial or Central and Memorial.


I think PAISD did right by naming the school and taking on it's own identity, just like what West Brook and Central did.

[Dick Vitale]

Who did they do right by? No one, IMO...They made the community swallow the fact that their schools were all gone...Not a trace of either of them..Traditions all gone..So, again, who did they do right by? It was done due to a desegregation order by TEA...How did THAT workout? It divided the Port Arthur community, as opposed to bringing it together as it said it would...Yeah for a few weeks during the football playoffs the community rallied...when it was all over, it died again, just as quickly...Lincoln basketball WAS Port Arthur...Memorial is a SHELL of what it really could be.

[Kountzer]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1165696" timestamp="1327499906"]
[quote author=Kountzer link=topic=94735.msg1165575#msg1165575 date=1327465538]
PA may have all the talent in the world.  Playground ball is just exercise, recreation.  If the talent is not on the court winning games it is wasted IMO.

I haven't seen PA basketball in awhile.  I'm just going by what I see in the papers and on the internet, especially here. 

Also, PA just being in the playoffs, I don't know.  That's good; I'm not knocking.  But I don't have to recite PA basketball history.  You know it better than I do.  There used to be a time when as soon as basketball practice started for the season, and the players @ Lincoln tied up their sneakers, every team and high school basketball fan in the state of Texas took notice.  Those teams in the DFW, in Houston, they all knew about PA basketball being played at Lincoln.  To go from that to 'we make the playoff, that a serious change. 

Please read & hear what I'm saying.  I am not dumping on PA basketball.  I wish coach Williams the best.  I just made statement based on the results, and what I am feeling about the results.
[/quote]So no one fears southeast texas basketball anymore ;)
[/quote]

Most of the attention is directed toward a few teams in the Houston/Ft Bend area, and especially on the teams in DFW.

[ballin4life]

[quote name="Kountzer" post="1166092" timestamp="1327551230"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94735.msg1165696#msg1165696 date=1327499906]
[quote author=Kountzer link=topic=94735.msg1165575#msg1165575 date=1327465538]
PA may have all the talent in the world.  Playground ball is just exercise, recreation.  If the talent is not on the court winning games it is wasted IMO.

I haven't seen PA basketball in awhile.  I'm just going by what I see in the papers and on the internet, especially here. 

Also, PA just being in the playoffs, I don't know.  That's good; I'm not knocking.  But I don't have to recite PA basketball history.  You know it better than I do.  There used to be a time when as soon as basketball practice started for the season, and the players @ Lincoln tied up their sneakers, every team and high school basketball fan in the state of Texas took notice.  Those teams in the DFW, in Houston, they all knew about PA basketball being played at Lincoln.  To go from that to 'we make the playoff, that a serious change. 

Please read & hear what I'm saying.  I am not dumping on PA basketball.  I wish coach Williams the best.  I just made statement based on the results, and what I am feeling about the results.
[/quote]So no one fears southeast texas basketball anymore ;)
[/quote]

Most of the attention is directed toward a few teams in the Houston/Ft Bend area, and especially on the teams in DFW.
[/quote]

I agree  :-\

[BLUEDOVE3]

I agree 100%. Been saying this for awhile. Nobody respects  S.E.Texas basketball nor the players like in the past.

[Dick Vitale]

It could be that way again.....it very well could...

[Boogie409]

I speak on behalf of this generation that grew up and watch Port Arthur lincoln. My father was state MVP in a lost to dallas lincoln in 1993. Expectations at lincoln was high it was like the movie friday night lights, except worse. If only they could make a movie of that 1993 team who had little expectations but still succeeded. With coach green i agree bad timing with the program, as for coach henderson he is a great man great scout, but sometimes he over coached and his focus wasnt completely there at memorial also couldnt win big games. We suffered from the community dividing not just lincoln, and tj but austin too cant forget. when they merged my buddies and high had the best talent in middle school at austin, wilson, and edison. we played against each other during the season but played AAU for the PA Heat summer time which one year we ended up 3rd in the nation at nationals. Before we entered high school at our tournaments and practices were high school coaches from Ozen, Kelly, Central, Nederland, Silsbee, and some more small schools. Thats when I knew we werent going to be together like we promise each other. Coach green didnt allow freshmen to play varsity and that was an issue. Everyone parents tryed to push into an ego competition, out of us 9 kids that played on that AAU team for PA Heat. Only 2 stayed, myself included. As I entered high school I played both sports but coach henderson at times didnt like underclassmen two sport athletes only seniors #fact. So instead of playing basketball senior year just focused more on football. My story is an example of once was a Hoops town is now a Football town. Dont think this job fits coach Williams. LONG LIVE THE BEEHIVE, ONE DAY WE WILL BE BACK

[Dick Vitale]

BOOGIE!!! hey man this is making me feel old! Your father and I played together in college, and I remember you as a little boy! You used to see Boutte and say "thats Michael Jaahhhhhdon" (Jordan)) ;D ;D...You are 100% correct as to the happenings of Port Arthur basketball, because YOU LIVED IT.  You hit the nail on the head. BUT...It can be the way it used to be...in due time... ;)

[Boogie409]

I remember as a lil boy i did call coach Boutte Michael Jordan.... Dick Vitale just dont know how high you all set the bar when we were kids. You guys are getting old lol, but as more of us memorial graduates finish college i see alot of them coming back to coach and teach at the high school and through out the district, which are my plans. As our Alumni return I see our fan base getting stronger and everyone coming together. In due time I think we will get back on track. We have our Football program rolling and girls basketball so only shows that good things are to come