Ned gets road win at Vidor-Article PA News

[Honest Abe]

http://panews.com/sports/x1296867461/Nederland-gets-road-win-at-Vidor

[BLUEDOVE3]

Nederland in trouble now. Gotta get up for the bigger games coming.

[DogFan3]

LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="DogFan3" post="1165790" timestamp="1327510717"]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1165814" timestamp="1327514850"]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!

[BLUEDOVE3]

8)

[asary]

One game at a time.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1165817" timestamp="1327515095"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
[/quote]
27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer.

[CThoops]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166043" timestamp="1327544487"]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1165817#msg1165817 date=1327515095]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
[/quote]
27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer.
[/quote]

Quite possibly.. But no offense to Ozen, they dont have the talent like they used to when he was coaching

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166043" timestamp="1327544487"]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1165817#msg1165817 date=1327515095]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
[/quote]
27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer.
[/quote]

I noticed you suggested that he be non biased.  Would that apply to you as well?  While you may know plenty about Coach Boutte, I am highly suspicious you dont know nearly as much about Mr. English who is a very accomplished coach in his own right.  I will also assure you that Mr. English has done quite a bit when the gene pool was not that good, a circumstance that Boutte rarely, if ever, encountered.  I would like to pose this hypothetical question to you Dickie V just for grins.  If Mr. Boutte and Mr. English went somewhere to coach and both inherited a low level of talent but teams with virtually identical characteristics, do you have any legitimate reason to believe that either team would do better than 500 against the other?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="dogs1218" post="1166049" timestamp="1327545213"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166043#msg1166043 date=1327544487]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1165817#msg1165817 date=1327515095]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
[/quote]
27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer.
[/quote]

Quite possibly.. But no offense to Ozen, they dont have the talent like they used to when he was coaching
[/quote]
Thats not entirely true...the 2007 team that he took to the state championship game was about like this team this year...They were not that big, they had a really good scoring guard in Kris Richards, and a servicable PG alongside him...a 6'4 post in Stephen Moten....nothing spectacular..District Champs, Region III champs..State Finalist...I will say this....THERE IS NO WAY THIS STREAK IS ANYWHERE NEAR 7 GAMES LET ALONE 27 IF BOUTTE WAS STILL AT OZEN...Not saying that Nederland would not have had success still, because I believe that they would have...playoff runs and all...but winning district like they have? NO WAY...

[CThoops]

I disagree, the talent has been growing at Nederland and Brian has done a great job getting them to where the program is at.. Might not have won 27 straight, but they would still being doing very well.

[Guest basketball25]

People dont realize how good ozen use to be and how good boutte was as a coach!!

[CThoops]

[quote name="baseball25" post="1166060" timestamp="1327546159"]
People dont realize how good ozen use to be and how good boutte was as a coach!!
[/quote]

I know pretty darn well how good Ozen was and how good of a coach he is..

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="baseball25" post="1166060" timestamp="1327546159"]
People dont realize how good ozen use to be and how good boutte was as a coach!!
[/quote]

What people?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166051" timestamp="1327545471"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166043#msg1166043 date=1327544487]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1165817#msg1165817 date=1327515095]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850]
[quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717]
LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!!
[/quote]We will see.
[/quote]
::)

Yes we will! ;D
27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so!
[/quote]
27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer.
[/quote]

I noticed you suggested that he be non biased.  Would that apply to you as well?  While you may know plenty about Coach Boutte, I am highly suspicious you dont know nearly as much about Mr. English who is a very accomplished coach in his own right.  I will also assure you that Mr. English has done quite a bit when the gene pool was not that good, a circumstance that Boutte rarely, if ever, encountered.  I would like to pose this hypothetical question to you Dickie V just for grins.  If Mr. Boutte and Mr. English went somewhere to coach and both inherited a low level of talent but teams with virtually identical characteristics, do you have any legitimate reason to believe that either team would do better than 500 against the other?
[/quote]
Good question...However, I know Coach English very well...He can flat out coach and I know this...BUT, If you are talking about PROGRAM BUILDING, Boutte has proven what he can do and so has Coach English in his own right...People always THINK that his programs at Lincoln and Ozen were just "so talented"...He coached Steven Jackson in 94 and 95....and Kendrick Perkins from 2000-03...OK, what do you want him to do? He won state titles with both of them as he should have, but people forget...what about the 93 team he took to state with no player taller than 6'2? And again his best job IMO was the 2007 team that went to the state title game...That team had about as much "talent" as THIS YEARS TEAM...I am not biased about this, but I was THERE...I saw it all happen...Coach English is a FANTASTIC COACH, but you cannot put him on the same plateau with Boutte, no matter how you cut it...To answer your question, I think that English has done a lot with less, however unbeknowing to most, Andre Boutte has done MORE with less...State tourney trips and championships are not easy to come by...He's been to the final four NINE times winning THREE titles...Half of those trips had no player on the roster named Jackson or Perkins either, so the talent argument is null and void....Program building or even program MAINTAINING is no easy task...Its one thing to win, its another to win BIG. Its apples to oranges, because BOTH are great in their own right, but only ONE of them has been to the top.

[stevenash]

Sorry- but being to the top does not, in my opinion make you a better coach.  There are plenty of great coaches out there who have never been to the top only because the circumstances surrounding them make it impossible.  Please dont suggest that coaching at Ozen and Lincoln is not a substantially large advantage before you ever step on the floor.  Furthermore, I think Mr. English might have a couple of titles of his own if his players had included Kendrick Perkins and Steven Jackson.  I can appreciate the fact that "you were there" but that has nothing to do with an objective or (as you said) non biased comparison.  I think it would be very silly of me to suggest that if Red Auerbach had continued to coach, that somehow, Phil Jacksons accomplishments would not have been as significant.  And I will still bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if both coaches were thrown in to similar circumstances(particulary ones where things are less than favorable) they would have similar outcomes. 

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166072" timestamp="1327547250"]
Sorry- but being to the top does not, in my opinion make you a better coach.  There are plenty of great coaches out there who have never been to the top only because the circumstances surrounding them make it impossible.  Please dont suggest that coaching at Ozen and Lincoln is not a substantially large advantage before you ever step on the floor.  Furthermore, I think Mr. English might have a couple of titles of his own if his players had included Kendrick Perkins and Steven Jackson.  I can appreciate the fact that "you were there" but that has nothing to do with an objective or (as you said) non biased comparison.  I think it would be very silly of me to suggest that if Red Auerbach had continued to coach, that somehow, Phil Jacksons accomplishments would not have been as significant.  And I will still bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if both coaches were thrown in to similar circumstances(particulary ones where things are less than favorable) they would have similar outcomes. 
[/quote]
OK, I can go with your last statement about them having similar outcomes, but let me pose this question....How big is that "advantage" now for Ozen and Port Arthur Memorial? There is a REASON for that....One other thing...Steven Jackson was a heck of talent coming into Lincoln in the fall of 1992..he had to be taught like any other kid, but he could play as a youngster...That was NOT the case with Kendrick..He HAD TO BE TAUGHT THE GAME...Work was put in with Perk, and he became who he was with COACHING...Talk about circumstances? Rashard Lewis played HS ball in Texas too (Alief Elsik)...NO titles, no appearances...what about a guy named Omar Sneed (Westbrook) No titles, no appearances...I could go on and on, but contrary to what most people think, you cant just roll the balls out and win state titles, even when you have perceived talent..They had to be coached, and they were. You believe Coach English could do it too? Maybe...maybe not...How do you gauge it? With what has already been accomplished...You think Coach K's accomplishments were lessened because he was at Duke? I mean Scott Drew (Baylor) can coach too, but he's never been to a final four...Because he's at Baylor? maybe...maybe not...But Duke used to be a doormat too...until they made that hire..Coach K reached the pinnacle multiple times...Baylor is ranked and playing well...would they do the same coaching at Lamar right now? I think Coach K would fare a bit better...Experience tells me that.

[Honest Abe]

Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure.

The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166080" timestamp="1327548544"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166072#msg1166072 date=1327547250]
Sorry- but being to the top does not, in my opinion make you a better coach.  There are plenty of great coaches out there who have never been to the top only because the circumstances surrounding them make it impossible.  Please dont suggest that coaching at Ozen and Lincoln is not a substantially large advantage before you ever step on the floor.  Furthermore, I think Mr. English might have a couple of titles of his own if his players had included Kendrick Perkins and Steven Jackson.  I can appreciate the fact that "you were there" but that has nothing to do with an objective or (as you said) non biased comparison.  I think it would be very silly of me to suggest that if Red Auerbach had continued to coach, that somehow, Phil Jacksons accomplishments would not have been as significant.  And I will still bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if both coaches were thrown in to similar circumstances(particulary ones where things are less than favorable) they would have similar outcomes. 
[/quote]
OK, I can go with your last statement about them having similar outcomes, but let me pose this question....How big is that "advantage" now for Ozen and Port Arthur Memorial? There is a REASON for that....One other thing...Steven Jackson was a heck of talent coming into Lincoln in the fall of 1992..he had to be taught like any other kid, but he could play as a youngster...That was NOT the case with Kendrick..He HAD TO BE TAUGHT THE GAME...Work was put in with Perk, and he became who he was with COACHING...Talk about circumstances? Rashard Lewis played HS ball in Texas too (Alief Elsik)...NO titles, no appearances...what about a guy named Omar Sneed (Westbrook) No titles, no appearances...I could go on and on, but contrary to what most people think, you cant just roll the balls out and win state titles, even when you have perceived talent..They had to be coached, and they were. You believe Coach English could do it too? Maybe...maybe not...How do you gauge it? With what has already been accomplished...You think Coach K's accomplishments were lessened because he was at Duke? I mean Scott Drew (Baylor) can coach too, but he's never been to a final four...Because he's at Baylor? maybe...maybe not...But Duke used to be a doormat too...until they made that hire..Coach K reached the pinnacle multiple times...Baylor is ranked and playing well...would they do the same coaching at Lamar right now? I think Coach K would fare a bit better...Experience tells me that.
[/quote]

I have no argument with anything you just said.  I do, however, believe that what Jackson and Perkins learned could have also been learned from others.  As you know, I am a Hardin Jefferson supporter.  But, I will tell you that if you bring Art Briles back to Hardin Jefferson, he will still not win the district any time soon.  At the same time, if you bring Tiger Woods to Ozen or Lincoln to coach the golf team, they aren't going to be winning any district titles.  As for having been to the top, my personal opinion is that Brad Stevens is every bit the coach that Jerry Tarkanian was and if you start them out in equal circumstances, my money is on Stevens even though Tarkanian has a national title in his resume.  I know little, if anything about cross country but if you make me the cross country coach at Bridge City, I am going to look pretty good.  Doc Rivers is the same coach as he was before Allen and Garnett arrived.  Eric Spoelstra is the same coach as he was before James and Bosh arrived.  Rick Carlisle went 35-47 at Indiana in 2006 and won the big one last year in Dallas.  I suspect there is little difference in his approach to coaching and I dont think the title means he is a better coach than Lenny Wilkens.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1166089" timestamp="1327550906"]
Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure.

The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different.
[/quote]
Vidor had a SENIOR team that year, and some real studs...Ozen had one senior on that team that they beat in 2004 which was the year after Perk entered the NBA and Ozen was considered "down" They were STILL DISTRICT CHAMPIONS with an overall record of 29-7...Lost in the regional tournament that year to eventual champion Houston Jones led by Daniel Gibson...Vidor lost in the second round that year, but THEY BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES, right? You wanna count the record head to head? Like 22-3! Come on man, be honest...I KNOW you don't think they would have a choke hold on 20-4A like this with him there! Not even CLOSE...again, they would still be very good, but a 27 game district streak? NO...Try that one again, NB-Dawg!! 8)

[asary]

Man, I guess since Nederland hasn't lost a district game in REALITY, some are now predicting how they might lose in THEORY.  :o. Fact of the matter is Nederland hasn't lost a district game in 27 outings. Yes, at some point they will lose, but it certainly wont be the end of Nederlands domination in 20 4A. Just curious, has any other 20 4A team/coach had such a record?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1166094" timestamp="1327551746"]
Man, I guess since Nederland hasn't lost a district game in REALITY, some are now predicting how they might lose in THEORY.  :o. Fact of the matter is Nederland hasn't lost a district game in 27 outings. Yes, at some point they will lose, but it certainly wont be the end of Nederlands domination in 20 4A. Just curious, has any other 20 4A team/coach had such a record?
[/quote]
Uhhh YES!!...Ozen at one point had a 58 game district streak going from 1999-2004 and it was snapped by VIDOR IN 2004! ::)....27? Come on man, that was EASY for Ozen then!  8)

[asary]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166093" timestamp="1327551708"]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166089#msg1166089 date=1327550906]
Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure.

The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different.
[/quote]
[b]Vidor had a SENIOR team that year, and some real studs[/b]...Ozen had one senior on that team that they beat in 2004 which was the year after Perk entered the NBA and Ozen was considered "down" They were STILL DISTRICT CHAMPIONS with an overall record of 29-7...Lost in the regional tournament that year to eventual champion Houston Jones led by Daniel Gibson...Vidor lost in the second round that year, but THEY BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES, right? You wanna count the record head to head? Like 22-3! Come on man, be honest...I KNOW you don't think they would have a choke hold on 20-4A like this with him there! Not even CLOSE...again, they would still be very
good, but a 27 game district streak? NO...Try that one again, NB-Dawg!!



I don't remember any "real studs". What I remember is that team winning with discipline and fundamentals. Things coach E is excellent instilling in his players.

[/quote]

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1166096" timestamp="1327552339"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166093#msg1166093 date=1327551708]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166089#msg1166089 date=1327550906]
Sorry i'm just getting back to you, but yes I do believe we would still be sitting on a 27 game district winning streak. Is it possible that it would be different with a Boutte-lead team? Sure.

The reason being is that Coach English's team at Vidor defeated Boutte's Ozen Panthers 3 times in one season. Let me repeat that again, AT VIDOR! As y'all mentioned, it may be different if there was a Perkins, Jackson, or BJ Tyler on a team. But there hasn't been those types of players in 20-4A in the past 3 years that this streak has been going. Boutte's talent (that year I mentioned) was comparable to what has been available in Beaumont the past few years. So yes, I believe nothing would be different.
[/quote]
[b]Vidor had a SENIOR team that year, and some real studs[/b]...Ozen had one senior on that team that they beat in 2004 which was the year after Perk entered the NBA and Ozen was considered "down" They were STILL DISTRICT CHAMPIONS with an overall record of 29-7...Lost in the regional tournament that year to eventual champion Houston Jones led by Daniel Gibson...Vidor lost in the second round that year, but THEY BEAT OZEN THREE TIMES, right? You wanna count the record head to head? Like 22-3! Come on man, be honest...I KNOW you don't think they would have a choke hold on 20-4A like this with him there! Not even CLOSE...again, they would still be very
good, but a 27 game district streak? NO...Try that one again, NB-Dawg!! 8)

I don't remember any "real studs". What I remember is that team winning with discipline and fundamentals. Things coach E is excellent instilling in his players.

[/quote]
[/quote]
Jake McWilliams was a STUD! 6'8 inside out monster that was DOMINANT...George Williamson (committed to BYU) was legit as well...They were very good! and were SENIORS...and WELL COACHED...They did what they were supposed to do! BUT....Ozen won the district title that year and advanced further in the playoffs making the regional tourney in a "down year" finishing 29-7...which would YOU rather have?..... ::) ::)