Ned gets road win at Vidor-Article PA News

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166379" timestamp="1327604003"]
Lincoln program EXTREMELY well established prior to his arrival.
[/quote]
So was Hardin Jefferson before Sutherland got there...your point? 8)

[Guest speechless]

[quote]Its not for everyone.....The game is to be sold, not told..[/quote]

Oh c'mon Dicky....inquiring minds want to know.  C'mon let a poor guy like myself who knows nothing about Austin learn a little.

C'mon...give me the rest of the list of things it takes to be a regular in Austin.  Why are you avoiding the question?  If I don't hear from you then I'll have to assume that the list already compiled is what you believe it takes.

[Guest basketball25]

lol i was just messing around just wanted to throw the bulls in that category lol

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166378" timestamp="1327603917"]
[quote author=vp32 link=topic=94873.msg1166370#msg1166370 date=1327603261]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166342#msg1166342 date=1327601200]
[quote author=baseball25 link=topic=94873.msg1166331#msg1166331 date=1327600226]
I am talking about the PG micheal young!!
[/quote]
That would be Mike Thomas.[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166305#msg1166305 date=1327598237]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166272#msg1166272 date=1327594851]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166268#msg1166268 date=1327594515]
Dickie V- you are in way over your head. You have about five different debates going at one time. Remember that this is about the 27 game district winning streak that Nederland currently has. You are bringing up all of these other years, which have no relevance to the debate at hand. If we stick to the facts, it suggests that Nederland would still have their win streak alive.
[/quote]

It is VERY relevant, because some of you act as if you have forgotten what Boutte has done here! NO...Nederland would not have won 27 games in a row had he still been at Ozen...NO WAY.. 8)
[/quote]

According to the facts presented here today, there is no evidence suggesting that Nederland's 27 game winning streak would not be what it is today regardless if Boutte was the coach or not.
In the past 2 seasons during this streak, Ozen has not had the talents of:

K. Perkins
Keenan Young
Brandon Chappel
Willie Jefferson
DeCarlos Franks

Since Ozen has been 'down' over the past two season, like they were in
2004, Nederland would still have a 27 game district winning streak.

I am not disregarding what Boutte did during his time, it was amazing. Nobody on this thread has said differently. But during his ONE down year, VIDOR swept them 3-0.

For the 4th time, the kind of talent Ozen has now was just the same in
2004, when Coach E's team went 3-0 against Boutte. The same would
happen with this Ozen team.
[/quote]
There is nothing factual about this statement other than there not being any "marquee" type players..Coach E's Vidor team was SECOND PLACE BEHIND OZEN IN THE STANDINGS TOO in 2004...Why is that FACT so hard for you to digest...COACH E's Vidor team LOST IN ROUND TWO OF THE PLAYOFFS...OZEN WENT TO THE REGIONALS AND LOST TO EVENTUAL CHAMPION HOUSTON JONES IN A "DOWN YEAR"...REPEAT...NEDERLAND WOULD NOT HAVE WON 27 GAMES IN A ROW IN DISTRICT IF ANDRE BOUTTE WAS STILL COACHING AT OZEN....Thats just it. Case closed...(because I am tired of talking about it!) 8)
[/quote]
Yes Ozen went further in the playoffs and yes they won district that year but they won district because they beat everyone else expect vidor (i think). Yes Vidor lost other games but the fact is that every time Boutte lined up against English he lost. That is a fact that you can't deny DV.
[/quote]
3 wins out of more than 25....Richard Hamilton (Florida St.) has beaten Coach K this year...should we give Coach Hamilton the nod for Coach of the Year? Makes no sense, huh? EXACTLY[/quote]
College and High school are two different things man. To compare them like there the same thing is just showing your ignorance.  8)

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166381" timestamp="1327604111"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166379#msg1166379 date=1327604003]
Lincoln program EXTREMELY well established prior to his arrival.
[/quote]
So was Hardin Jefferson before Sutherland got there...your point? 8)
[/quote]

  Nobody claiming Sutherland to be the Messiah  The point is a lot of what happened at Lincoln was well established prior to arrival.  But since you brought it up, the last I checked, Sutherland has been to Austin with three different teams.

[Guest basketball25]

lol just end the thread!! Coach English we all know is a great coach, the guy can flat out do his thing!!!! Coach boutte is a legend!!! I do believe maybe one day English will get that ring!!!

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="speechless" post="1166383" timestamp="1327604208"]
[quote]Its not for everyone.....The game is to be sold, not told..[/quote]

Oh c'mon Dicky....inquiring minds want to know.  C'mon let a poor guy like myself who knows nothing about Austin learn a little.

C'mon...give me the rest of the list of things it takes to be a regular in Austin.  Why are you avoiding the question?  If I don't hear from you then I'll have to assume that the list already compiled is what you believe it takes.
[/quote]

Please, do not patronize me...I am simply telling you guys that we did not just roll the balls out and headed to Austin and win a state title, as some of you may THINK we did. I am really done with this one..its exhausting, really.



[quote author=vp32 link=topic=94873.msg1166386#msg1166386 date=1327604332]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166378#msg1166378 date=1327603917]
[quote author=vp32 link=topic=94873.msg1166370#msg1166370 date=1327603261]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166342#msg1166342 date=1327601200]
[quote author=baseball25 link=topic=94873.msg1166331#msg1166331 date=1327600226]
I am talking about the PG micheal young!!
[/quote]
That would be Mike Thomas.[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166305#msg1166305 date=1327598237]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166272#msg1166272 date=1327594851]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166268#msg1166268 date=1327594515]
Dickie V- you are in way over your head. You have about five different debates going at one time. Remember that this is about the 27 game district winning streak that Nederland currently has. You are bringing up all of these other years, which have no relevance to the debate at hand. If we stick to the facts, it suggests that Nederland would still have their win streak alive.
[/quote]

It is VERY relevant, because some of you act as if you have forgotten what Boutte has done here! NO...Nederland would not have won 27 games in a row had he still been at Ozen...NO WAY.. 8)
[/quote]

According to the facts presented here today, there is no evidence suggesting that Nederland's 27 game winning streak would not be what it is today regardless if Boutte was the coach or not.
In the past 2 seasons during this streak, Ozen has not had the talents of:

K. Perkins
Keenan Young
Brandon Chappel
Willie Jefferson
DeCarlos Franks

Since Ozen has been 'down' over the past two season, like they were in
2004, Nederland would still have a 27 game district winning streak.

I am not disregarding what Boutte did during his time, it was amazing. Nobody on this thread has said differently. But during his ONE down year, VIDOR swept them 3-0.

For the 4th time, the kind of talent Ozen has now was just the same in
2004, when Coach E's team went 3-0 against Boutte. The same would
happen with this Ozen team.
[/quote]
There is nothing factual about this statement other than there not being any "marquee" type players..Coach E's Vidor team was SECOND PLACE BEHIND OZEN IN THE STANDINGS TOO in 2004...Why is that FACT so hard for you to digest...COACH E's Vidor team LOST IN ROUND TWO OF THE PLAYOFFS...OZEN WENT TO THE REGIONALS AND LOST TO EVENTUAL CHAMPION HOUSTON JONES IN A "DOWN YEAR"...REPEAT...NEDERLAND WOULD NOT HAVE WON 27 GAMES IN A ROW IN DISTRICT IF ANDRE BOUTTE WAS STILL COACHING AT OZEN....Thats just it. Case closed...(because I am tired of talking about it!) 8)
[/quote]
Yes Ozen went further in the playoffs and yes they won district that year but they won district because they beat everyone else expect vidor (i think). Yes Vidor lost other games but the fact is that every time Boutte lined up against English he lost. That is a fact that you can't deny DV.
[/quote]
3 wins out of more than 25....Richard Hamilton (Florida St.) has beaten Coach K this year...should we give Coach Hamilton the nod for Coach of the Year? Makes no sense, huh? EXACTLY[/quote]
College and High school are two different things man. To compare them like there the same thing is just showing your ignorance.  8)
[/quote]

No ignorance here...That is why I am walking away from this one...have a great day.

[quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166388#msg1166388 date=1327604457]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166381#msg1166381 date=1327604111]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166379#msg1166379 date=1327604003]
Lincoln program EXTREMELY well established prior to his arrival.
[/quote]
So was Hardin Jefferson before Sutherland got there...your point? 8)
[/quote]

  Nobody claiming Sutherland to be the Messiah  The point is a lot of what happened at Lincoln was well established prior to arrival
[/quote]

How is all of that tradition working out for them now? I mean its STILL Port Arthur, right? They should be able to just walk on the floor and get a "W", no matter WHO is coaching them, right? What have they done since then? (except for 1999, when another great coach (Gamble) stepped back in and they went to state....again)

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166390" timestamp="1327604738"]
[quote author=vp32 link=topic=94873.msg1166386#msg1166386 date=1327604332]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166378#msg1166378 date=1327603917]
[quote author=vp32 link=topic=94873.msg1166370#msg1166370 date=1327603261]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166342#msg1166342 date=1327601200]
[quote author=baseball25 link=topic=94873.msg1166331#msg1166331 date=1327600226]
I am talking about the PG micheal young!!
[/quote]
That would be Mike Thomas.[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166305#msg1166305 date=1327598237]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94873.msg1166272#msg1166272 date=1327594851]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166268#msg1166268 date=1327594515]
Dickie V- you are in way over your head. You have about five different debates going at one time. Remember that this is about the 27 game district winning streak that Nederland currently has. You are bringing up all of these other years, which have no relevance to the debate at hand. If we stick to the facts, it suggests that Nederland would still have their win streak alive.
[/quote]

It is VERY relevant, because some of you act as if you have forgotten what Boutte has done here! NO...Nederland would not have won 27 games in a row had he still been at Ozen...NO WAY.. 8)
[/quote]

According to the facts presented here today, there is no evidence suggesting that Nederland's 27 game winning streak would not be what it is today regardless if Boutte was the coach or not.
In the past 2 seasons during this streak, Ozen has not had the talents of:

K. Perkins
Keenan Young
Brandon Chappel
Willie Jefferson
DeCarlos Franks

Since Ozen has been 'down' over the past two season, like they were in
2004, Nederland would still have a 27 game district winning streak.

I am not disregarding what Boutte did during his time, it was amazing. Nobody on this thread has said differently. But during his ONE down year, VIDOR swept them 3-0.

For the 4th time, the kind of talent Ozen has now was just the same in
2004, when Coach E's team went 3-0 against Boutte. The same would
happen with this Ozen team.
[/quote]
There is nothing factual about this statement other than there not being any "marquee" type players..Coach E's Vidor team was SECOND PLACE BEHIND OZEN IN THE STANDINGS TOO in 2004...Why is that FACT so hard for you to digest...COACH E's Vidor team LOST IN ROUND TWO OF THE PLAYOFFS...OZEN WENT TO THE REGIONALS AND LOST TO EVENTUAL CHAMPION HOUSTON JONES IN A "DOWN YEAR"...REPEAT...NEDERLAND WOULD NOT HAVE WON 27 GAMES IN A ROW IN DISTRICT IF ANDRE BOUTTE WAS STILL COACHING AT OZEN....Thats just it. Case closed...(because I am tired of talking about it!) 8)
[/quote]
Yes Ozen went further in the playoffs and yes they won district that year but they won district because they beat everyone else expect vidor (i think). Yes Vidor lost other games but the fact is that every time Boutte lined up against English he lost. That is a fact that you can't deny DV.
[/quote]
3 wins out of more than 25....Richard Hamilton (Florida St.) has beaten Coach K this year...should we give Coach Hamilton the nod for Coach of the Year? Makes no sense, huh? EXACTLY[/quote]
College and High school are two different things man. To compare them like there the same thing is just showing your ignorance.  8)
[/quote]

No ignorance here...[b]That is why I am walking away from this one[/b]...have a great day.

Please, do not patronize me...I am simply telling you guys that we did not just roll the balls out and headed to Austin and win a state title, as some of you may THINK we did. I am really done with this one..its exhausting, really.[/quote]
Smart move.  8)

[stevenash]

Now that you mention it, why hasn't that tradition carried on in Pt. Arthur?  Shouldn't it be easy for a new coach to take advantage of all that knowledge and experience (that nobody else apparently has)  and continue?  After all, it seems like that is what happened at Lincoln when a new young coach came in and did such a good job.  Surely he was smart enough to have taken advantage of what Mr. Gamble had to offer, right?  If he was only 22 at Kountze, then he was only 25 at Lincoln.  I am going to bet you it has more to do with basketball not being as important at TJ as it was at Lincoln.

[Guest speechless]

Show me where ANYONE said "they just rolled the balls out".


I'll answer it for you and I will put it in order of importance since you refuse to answer me because you KNEW it would hurt your argument:

1.  Supportive administration-most importantly the superintendent and principal
2.  Supportive athletic director
3.  Solid youth program
4.  Talent (I think talent can come from #3)
5.  Player accessibility (in other words must be getting a fair shake in getting court time for your players-no UOS)
6.  Coaching
7.  Summer programs
8.  System Consistency (constant changes in coaching and philosophy make it difficult)
9.  Gym accessibility
10.  Community interest/support

[Guest speechless]

I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying about Boutte and his success (I know I don't disagree) but, you are trying to minimize all the other factors that go into being a regular in Austin and make it strictly about coaching and it is so much more than that.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166398" timestamp="1327605336"]
Now that you mention it, why hasn't that tradition carried on in Pt. Arthur?  Shouldn't it be easy for a new coach to take advantage of all that knowledge and experience (that nobody else apparently has)  and continue?  After all, it seems like that is what happened at Lincoln when a new young coach came in and did such a good job.  Surely he was smart enough to have taken advantage of what Mr. Gamble had to offer, right?  If he was only 22 at Kountze, then he was only 25 at Lincoln.  I am going to bet you it has more to do with basketball not being as important at TJ as it was at Lincoln.
[/quote]
Come on steve, you know what it is...OK...You guys can have this one...I have said my piece and you guys have too...Its OK to agree to disagree...

[quote author=speechless link=topic=94873.msg1166399#msg1166399 date=1327605445]
Show me where ANYONE said "they just rolled the balls out".


I'll answer it for you and I will put it in order of importance since you refuse to answer me because you KNEW it would hurt your argument:

1.  Supportive administration-most importantly the superintendent and principal
2.  Supportive athletic director
3.  Solid youth program
4.  Talent (I think talent can come from #3)
5.  Player accessibility (in other words must be getting a fair shake in getting court time for your players-no UOS)
6.  Coaching
7.  Summer programs
8.  System Consistency (constant changes in coaching and philosophy make it difficult)
9.  Gym accessibility
10.  Community interest/support
[/quote]

Not trying to "win" any arguments here, my man...Those are all valid points in successful program building..we will just have to agree on some points, and agree to disagree on some others...no big deal.

[quote author=speechless link=topic=94873.msg1166400#msg1166400 date=1327605568]
I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying about Boutte and his success (I know I don't disagree) but, you are trying to minimize all the other factors that go into being a regular in Austin and make it strictly about coaching and it is so much more than that.
[/quote]

And that I agree with you 100% on...and have always known that to be fact.

[bullets13]

so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point.

[Dick Vitale]

Yep...somewhere around page 2!!  8)....I tried to tell em!!  ::)

[stevenash]

[quote name="bullets13" post="1166405" timestamp="1327605865"]
so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point.
[/quote]

I think a great number of readers took exception to the "suggestion" that under "certain circumstances" Mr. English would not be doing as well as he is.  Seems like a normal human response to me.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166407" timestamp="1327606103"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=94873.msg1166405#msg1166405 date=1327605865]
so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point.
[/quote]

I think a great number of readers took exception to the "suggestion" that under "certain circumstances" Mr. English would not be doing as well as he is.  Seems like a normal human response to me.
[/quote]
Well...yes he would be....27 in a row...no way...under "certain circumstances" of course!  ;D

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="bullets13" post="1166405" timestamp="1327605865"]
so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point.
[/quote]
The comment was made that after the Ned/Vidor game, that Ned's district winning streak is at 27. A hypothetical question about the 27 game win streak was brought up; asking if it would still be intact if Boutte was still the HC at Ozen. It has turned into a few other topics, bc some people cannot focus on one issue at a time. There are 5 sub-topics under the original topic.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166408" timestamp="1327606178"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166407#msg1166407 date=1327606103]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=94873.msg1166405#msg1166405 date=1327605865]
so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point.
[/quote]

I think a great number of readers took exception to the "suggestion" that under "certain circumstances" Mr. English would not be doing as well as he is.  Seems like a normal human response to me.
[/quote]
Well...yes he would be....27 in a row...no way...under "certain circumstances" of course!  ;D
[/quote]

I think the one point that you  don't understand/accept is that, in spite of your basketball background, MANY people are knowledgeable in that area and feel that their opinions are EVERY BIT as valid as yours.( and they are)  Seems like most college coaches embrace an  intense man to man defense but it would be VERY foolish for them to suggest that Jim Boeheim does not know what he is doing or that his approach is somehow less credible than theirs.  I fully understand/appreciate how successful Coach Boutte has been but he is hardly the last word in coaching.  You know the Boutte story very well.  That is great.  But there are a lot of good stories out there with which you are not nearly as familiar and I suggest you acknowledge that your opinion is not necessarily always the superior one simply because of your upbringing.  I think Pat Knight recognizes that his background does not make him, his opinions, and his approach to coaching superior to everyone else.

[bullets13]

i certainly understand how threads take on a life of their own sometimes :)

[stevenash]

It's good for your traffic count.

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1166418" timestamp="1327606915"]
It's good for your traffic count.
[/quote]
And its good for our post count.  8)

[PhatMack19]

Boutte has 3 State titles on his resume that English doesn't, so it's hard to compare them based on that.  On those championship teams Boutte got to coach Kelvin McKyer, Keith Harris, Steven Jackson, Immanuel McElroy, Kendrick Perkins etc.....



Has English ever had a player on the same planet as any of these guys???  I think not!  I'm not knocking Boutte, but the talent level that he got to coach is not even on the same level.

[stevenash]

The guy on the other side of this argument is going to suggest to you that these players would not have been that good if they had not been coached by a specific individual.  My contention is that there are plenty of competent knowledgeable coaches out there who would have provided similar benefits to those players and Brian English is most certainly one of them.

[Bigdog]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166358" timestamp="1327602435"]


What facts? 9 State appearances, 3 titles, 17 district titles, 12 regional tourney appearances, .085 winning percentage....Men lie, women lie, NUMBERS DON'T... 8)

[/quote]

Only when they are incorrect.  1 State title, 3 Finals appearances, 7 State tourney appearances.  Oh by the way, how can they have 17 district titles when the school has existed for 12 years? 

[bullets13]

he's talking about Boutte's career, not Ozen's overall statistics.