***SETXsports RE-ALIGNMENT SPECIAL/THIS MORNING AT 8:30 AM!***

[Bigdog]

[quote name="Team Game" post="1171084" timestamp="1328275164"]
I just did a quick look at some other states and noticed that Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska have 6 classifications and Arkansas has 7. Why are we squeezing more kids in 5 classifications?
[/quote]

Pretty much all of the 7A schools in Arkansas are clustered in one area, NW Arkansas.  There is a 7A east and west division I believe, with the east division around Little Rock.  LR is about 4 hours from NW Arkansas, and you can go all the way across the state in about 6 hours.  Not so much with Texas, 12 hours and you would barely make it.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1171135" timestamp="1328280270"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1171113#msg1171113 date=1328278231]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]Yates= Win and they shall follow you. Players pick Yates,[sub] [size=8pt]with a litttle outside variables included[/size][/sub]
[/quote]

Tme can change a lot of things.  Wasnt that long ago that a certain Beaumont school was the big kid on the block and that was never going to change.

[stevenash]

[quote name="bullets13" post="1171113" timestamp="1328278231"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]

If there were a way to quanitify/ handicap basketball to an enrollment figure, I suspect HJ would be listed among the cream of the crop in the state.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1171145" timestamp="1328280900"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171135#msg1171135 date=1328280270]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1171113#msg1171113 date=1328278231]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]Yates= Win and they shall follow you. Players pick Yates,[sub] [size=8pt]with a litttle outside variables included[/size][/sub]
[/quote]

Tme can change a lot of things.  Wasnt that long ago that a certain Beaumont school was the big kid on the block and that was never going to change.
[/quote]There you go again. All of Beaumont hit a dry spell about 2 years ago.

[ST413]

From to tip12 hours wont her you across tx, especially in a bus.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1171149" timestamp="1328281028"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1171145#msg1171145 date=1328280900]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171135#msg1171135 date=1328280270]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1171113#msg1171113 date=1328278231]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]Yates= Win and they shall follow you. Players pick Yates,[sub] [size=8pt]with a litttle outside variables included[/size][/sub]
[/quote]

Tme can change a lot of things.  Wasnt that long ago that a certain Beaumont school was the big kid on the block and that was never going to change.
[/quote]There you go again. All of Beaumont hit a dry spell about 2 years ago.
[/quote]

Which is proof that nothing is permanent INCLUDING the Yates situation.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="bullets13" post="1171113" timestamp="1328278231"]
laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from? [/quote]But the "entire city of Houston" analogy you are using has NOTHING to do with the ratio system of (aprroximately) 2.2 that is laid out right now.  Even if you went to the 6 or 7 classifications that you are touting, Houston would still be able to do what you claim they are doing now.

In other words, Houston could fleece the 6 or 7 classification system just as easily as they could fleece the 5 classification ratio system.  Hence, you would be solving nothing by doing that.

And your ranking of Kountze as 30th in 3A?  Not bad for a rebuilding year.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1171156" timestamp="1328281208"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171149#msg1171149 date=1328281028]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1171145#msg1171145 date=1328280900]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171135#msg1171135 date=1328280270]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1171113#msg1171113 date=1328278231]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]Yates= Win and they shall follow you. Players pick Yates,[sub] [size=8pt]with a litttle outside variables included[/size][/sub]
[/quote]

Tme can change a lot of things.  Wasnt that long ago that a certain Beaumont school was the big kid on the block and that was never going to change.
[/quote]There you go again. All of Beaumont hit a dry spell about 2 years ago.
[/quote]

Which is proof that nothing is permanent INCLUDING the Yates situation.
[/quote]I think HJ's dry spell gonna hit /start next year ;)

[Guest speechless]

The problem is that the UIL shoots for 230-250 schools in each classification.  Guess how many 3A has?  190!

Guess how many 1A has?  390!

All you have to do is move the 60 highest enrolled 1A schools up to 2A, the 60 highest enrolled 2A schools up to 3A, the 60 highest enrolled schools in 3A up to 4A and the 60 highest enrolled schools in 4A up to 5A.  That would give 5A right a 300 schools or so.  Take the top 150 enrolled 5A schools and make them 6A.  Get rid of your two divisions in 1A and your problem is solved.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1171174" timestamp="1328282806"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1171156#msg1171156 date=1328281208]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171149#msg1171149 date=1328281028]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95072.msg1171145#msg1171145 date=1328280900]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95072.msg1171135#msg1171135 date=1328280270]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1171113#msg1171113 date=1328278231]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1170949#msg1170949 date=1328228171]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95072.msg1170941#msg1170941 date=1328227522]
that sucks, but so does a small school meeting up with an inner city school in the playoffs that has 500 more kids enrolled and that is able to pull kids in from all over a huge city.
[/quote]You find a more feasible solution and we'll pitch it to UIL.  In the meantime, I'll watch teams like Kountze compete with 1/2 of the local 4A teams in the area and laugh at you.

You see, its the quality of the basketball pool that is so much more important than the size of the basketball pool.  Take HJ and Silsbee.  Together, they've beaten probably every 4A and 5A team in the area this year alone.
[/quote]

laugh away... if kountze was 3A, they'd be about the 30th best team in the state. and there are many 3A schools that are closer in size to Kountze than they are to the 3A schools at the top of the spectrum.  and this is the reason i brought up huge cities, and schools pulling in kids from all over those cities, but keeping enrollment under 1000.  Which basketball pool has more quality... Hardin Jefferson, or the entire city of Houston, which Yates seems to pick and choose players from?
[/quote]Yates= Win and they shall follow you. Players pick Yates,[sub] [size=8pt]with a litttle outside variables included[/size][/sub]
[/quote]

Tme can change a lot of things.  Wasnt that long ago that a certain Beaumont school was the big kid on the block and that was never going to change.
[/quote]There you go again. All of Beaumont hit a dry spell about 2 years ago.
[/quote]

Which is proof that nothing is permanent INCLUDING the Yates situation.
[/quote]I think HJ's dry spell gonna hit /start next year ;)
[/quote]

How do you define dry?  NOt going to state?  Not going to regionals?  Not making the playoffs?  Having a record below 500?  The only word you need to change in your statement is to use "hope" rather than "think" in order to make it totally accurate.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="speechless" post="1171176" timestamp="1328283233"]
The problem is that the UIL shoots for 230-250 schools in each classification.  [b]Guess how many 3A has?  190![/b]

Guess how many 1A has?  390!

All you have to do is move the 60 highest enrolled 1A schools up to 2A, the 60 highest enrolled 2A schools up to 3A, the 60 highest enrolled schools in 3A up to 4A and the 60 highest enrolled schools in 4A up to 5A.  That would give 5A right a 300 schools or so.  Take the top 150 enrolled 5A schools and make them 6A.  Get rid of your two divisions in 1A and your problem is solved.
[/quote]So if you add 60 schools to 3A from 2A, then take 60 schools from 3A to 4A, aren't you still left with 190 in 3A? 

[Guest speechless]

You are but, the enrollment figures change.....you are bringing the bottom and top numbers down in all classifications....the point of mentioning that there are 190 schools in 3A is that there is obviously and overload of schools somewhere else and that is in 1A

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="ST413" post="1171150" timestamp="1328281070"]
From to tip12 hours wont her you across tx, especially in a bus.
[/quote]
What?  ???

[AggiesAreWe]

But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games.

Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.

[Guest speechless]

[quote]But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games.

Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.[/quote]

I understand but, you are still left with 330 1A schools that play basketball.  I don't know how many of those play football but, I am guessing you could still work things out football wise out of 330 schools.

Travel is already an issue at 5A and will always be an issue in region 1.

My point is....a school of 450 competing against a school of 1004 is a heck of a lot different than a school of 2500 competing against a school of 5000.

Kind of like the difference between a 35 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 15 year old.  The age difference is numerically the same but, that is where the similarities end.

They could keep the 300 schools 5A for all I care.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1171207" timestamp="1328285600"]
But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games.

Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.
[/quote]More travel with larger caravans.... larger football teams, larger bands, etc., etc.

Of course, Calvin Walker has a brother in the bussing industry, so I'm sure Beaumont ISD will gladly support this!  ;)  Your tax dollars at work!

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="speechless" post="1171212" timestamp="1328286134"]
[quote]But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games.

Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.[/quote]

I understand but, you are still left with 330 1A schools that play basketball.  I don't know how many of those play football but, I am guessing you could still work things out football wise out of 330 schools.

Travel is already an issue at 5A and will always be an issue in region 1.

My point is....a school of 450 competing against a school of 1004 is a heck of a lot different than a school of 2500 competing against a school of 5000.

Kind of like the difference between a 35 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 15 year old.  The age difference is numerically the same but, that is where the similarities end.

They could keep the 300 schools 5A for all I care.
[/quote]Actually, way back in our ancestor days, a 25 year old marrying a 15 year old was no big deal. They worked it out just fine ;)

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="speechless" post="1171212" timestamp="1328286134"]
[quote]But the problem with taking that many from 1A is a great number of 1A's do not play football. You deplete their numbers and you will have many more schools having to travel much more for district ball games.

Also, 150 in the top two classifications will make for more travel.[/quote]

I understand but, you are still left with 330 1A schools that play basketball.  I don't know how many of those play football but, I am guessing you could still work things out football wise out of 330 schools.

Travel is already an issue at 5A and will always be an issue in region 1.

[b]My point is....a school of 450 competing against a school of 1004 is a heck of a lot different than a school of 2500 competing against a school of 5000.[/b]

Kind of like the difference between a 35 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 15 year old.  The age difference is numerically the same but, that is where the similarities end.

They could keep the 300 schools 5A for all I care.
[/quote]And I disagree with your reasoning.  Statistically speaking, the law of averages is the same for a 450 school against a 900-1000 as it is for a 2500 against a 5000 - 5500.  Period.


Oh, and the 25 year old dater vs. the 35 year old dater?  You forgot to factor in how much money each one of those guys make!!!!  Big difference!  ;)

[Guest speechless]

I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand.

Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story.

[AggiesAreWe]

168 1A schools play football

390 1A schools play basketball


It's probably fair to assume that those 168 schools that play football is the vast majority of the larger schools in 1A. So by taking 60 of those 168, you leave 108 to play football (give or take a few).

I can tell you right now that would be a geographical nightmare and would force many of those schools into dropping football because of the travel expenses.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="speechless" post="1171228" timestamp="1328286865"]
I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand.

Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story.
[/quote]When you are trying to find the most equitable situation for all, statistics is all you have.  Everything else becomes cumbersome and creates more problems than it solves.  I could bore you to tears with bell-curves that support this reasoning, but it just isn't worth it.

[stevenash]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1171234" timestamp="1328287248"]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=95072.msg1171228#msg1171228 date=1328286865]
I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand.

Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story.
[/quote]When you are trying to find the most equitable situation for all, statistics is all you have.  Everything else becomes cumbersome and creates more problems than it solves.  I could bore you to tears with bell-curves that support this reasoning, but it just isn't worth it.
[/quote]

Will statistics accurately quanitify the level of competition created in a metropolitan area vs a rural area and hence the eventual quality of the players?  I would be willing to bet that if you take the top1% of all basketball players in Houston and compare them to the top 1% of players in the Nacogdoches community, there is a substantial difference in the calibre of play.

[BLUEDOVE3]

Or better, compare your research on teams who have [s]recruited [/s]......errrrr persuaded at least 2-3 AAU elite players on their team versus others. Some schools are [s]stacking[/s] ....errrr balancing their teams.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1171243" timestamp="1328287514"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95072.msg1171234#msg1171234 date=1328287248]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=95072.msg1171228#msg1171228 date=1328286865]
I'm not speaking statistically, I'm speaking factually from having seen the situations first hand.

Statistics are nice and all but, don't always tell the whole story.
[/quote]When you are trying to find the most equitable situation for all, statistics is all you have.  Everything else becomes cumbersome and creates more problems than it solves.  I could bore you to tears with bell-curves that support this reasoning, but it just isn't worth it.
[/quote]

Will statistics accurately quanitify the level of competition created in a metropolitan area vs a rural area and hence the eventual quality of the players?  I would be willing to bet that if you take the top1% of all basketball players in Houston and compare them to the top 1% of players in the Nacogdoches community, there is a substantial difference in the calibre of play.
[/quote]I'm not arguing that.  Are you going to say that a 800 student school in Houston should be rated 5A simply because there are more talented people in Houston?

I'm not saying statistically based classification is good.  I'm just saying its the best and most equitable way of doing it.  Period.

[Guest speechless]

Since statistics are your thing.....know that 3A has always had the worst ratio...they are bragging about it going down from 2.3 to 2.2....that sounds good in theory but, here are the numbers:

This past alignment 3A was 432-989
The new alignment 3A is 450-1004

The bottom number went up 18 and the top number went up 15....that is a difference of THREE people!  The 3A ratio is typically one of the worst in reclassification.  Then you top it off with every other classification having at least 230 schools in it except 3A which has 190.