BMT. OZEN VS. LIVINGSTON BROADCAST/LIVINGSTON WINS 59-42!

[uandme08]

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1174487" timestamp="1328727080"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95625.msg1174475#msg1174475 date=1328726289]
I would have gone to game but BMTSOULJA talked me out of it. His theory on driving 2-hours to Livingston to watch a 32 minute basketball made $ents to me.
[/quote]See there?  ;D
[/quote]
I hate driving and complain anytime I have to go to Livingston. Prayerfully I only have to make the drive one more time and that's during football season. Anyway the drive wasn't as bad as it used to be, IMO getting to the new school is easier than the last one was. Dove, I made it there in 1 hour and 15 minutes and was able to watch 2 quarters of some enjoyable basketball being played (JV game was in the 3rd quarter).

[rc2182]

[quote name="uandme08" post="1174510" timestamp="1328729208"]
[quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174461#msg1174461 date=1328725832]
[quote author=uandme08 link=topic=95625.msg1174330#msg1174330 date=1328716362]
[quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174306#msg1174306 date=1328715292]
I would think everyone would do a little research b4 we get to discussing coaches credentials,not sure about one coach but the one at Ozen happen to play high school basketball ,but even at that ,there are a lot of things you have to take into consideration does he have parent,community, BISD(PRINCIPAL,AD, SUPERINT, PLAYERS ETC....) and last but not least how many shots did he miss (the coach),reb. did he get ,Players Play Coaches Coach.
[/quote]
Yes there are alot of things to take into consideration but there are some things you have no control over. Honestly I don't know why the parents are not there, I have always felt that for every child participating there should be at least 1 person from the family showing support. The community is full of bandwagon fans, nobody really showed up for the football games but when they got a decent win 10 more people showed up. It's sad to look in the gym at a home game and see maybe 50 people. I understand the coach doesn't miss the shots or gets out rebounded or turns the ball over but he makes the decision as to who will be on the court. When you see a kid make a mistake, you don't bench him and not tell him what he did wrong or show him an alternative. When you have back to back turnovers, you don't call a timeout and not say nothing in the huddle. When you go down by 7 and you see some of your team getting discouraged, you don't just sit down and not say a word. There was nothing coming from Ozen's sideline last night. If it wasn't for 4 of the 12 fans that showed up, nothing would have been heard. No motivation at all and the lead was maybe 7 (if that) at the beginning of the 4th quarter. I'm no coach and never want that responsibility but I've been around long enough to know a thing or 2 IMO. Something is lacking with Ozen's basketball program and I won't put all of the blame on the coaching staff. I'm frustrated and don't want another headache from last night....[b]I agree uandme something is not right with the program and it is frustrating to see Ozen in such a rut ,all i'm saying is it is easy to look ,and place blame on the coach or leader of the team ,look at the president ,all blame falls on his shoulders but is he the total blame for the predictment the country is in .Back to Ozen ,things that might be taken into consideration is loosing three possibly four starters on the team ,one to grades ,two to discplinary reasons,and one to concentrating just on track,just saying.  [/b] [/quote]
[/quote]
Ok RC2182, I get what you are saying but there are obstacles that have to be crossed along the way. Ozen has won games without the 3 or 4 mentioned previously and they have lost some but by this point adjustments should have been made and you should know what you are working with and how to piece it together. Just speaking from watching last night, it was a nightmare. There were no adjustments and no guidance. To walk into a huddle at timeout and not say nothing to motivate them was useless. It was almost comical that he didn't know what to say to them. I even asked my son what was said in the locker room and/or on the bus and it was nothing worth mentioning. We have to play the had we are dealt with and again at this point, it should be known what's working and when it's not working what adjustments need to be made. There is more than one way to skin a cat and last night Ozen only had one plan in motion and it failed.
[/quote]                OK, uandme sound like you are very aware of situations in all aspects, so with that being said I hope everyone is learning something ,coaches and players both ,season is long from being over ,hopefully they will bounce back.

[stevenash]

Is there a possibility that Ozen simply isnt as good as they have been in the past?  It happens to everyone at one time or another.

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174535" timestamp="1328732180"]
Is there a possibility that Ozen simply isnt as good as they have been in the past?  It happens to everyone at one time or another.
[/quote]I don't know.  Ozen beat Livingston by double digits in the first district meeting.

[stevenash]

My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)

[BMTSoulja1]

It actually is the coaching.  That 2007 Ozen squad had mediocre talent on it, but they still marched to state.  THAT made a believer out of me.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174545" timestamp="1328732987"]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1174552" timestamp="1328733229"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.
[/quote]
For sure, Dickie.  There is only one Boutte.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1174552" timestamp="1328733229"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.
[/quote]

And you and I simply differ on that.  You believe that most of it is attributable to coaching.  If you believe that, then you are simply telling me that HJ would have won the district football title this year if they had Art Briles as their coach.  I strongly disagree.  If Todd Sutherland resigns tomorrow, the program will continue to be successful.  But if they have a year or two where there isn't as much talent, one would look a little foollish to say if Todd was there the results would be so much better.  You just happen to be more enamored with a single individual and give him more credit than I would be inclined to do.

[uandme08]

IMO Ozen has the talent to compete with any team in 20-4A. Ozen's talent is spread out among the players and not perched on the shoulders of 1 or 2 (not implying that it's like that for any other school) but there comes a point where it has to be known how to put it together. Just because 1 of the players may have a bad night doesn't mean that the whole team has to follow. As a child I often used dominoes or blocks and lined them up then tapped the 1st one and watched the rest fall. Last night was a tragedy to say the lease, one got down which in turn led to the downfall but nobody stepped in and tried to stand them back up....not blaming anybody but again NOBODY stepped up to the plate to turn it around.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174598" timestamp="1328737557"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174552#msg1174552 date=1328733229]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.
[/quote]

And you and I simply differ on that.  You believe that most of it is attributable to coaching.  If you believe that, then you are simply telling me that HJ would have won the district football title this year if they had Art Briles as their coach.  I strongly disagree.  If Todd Sutherland resigns tomorrow, the program will continue to be successful.  But if they have a year or two where there isn't as much talent, one would look a little foollish to say if Todd was there the results would be so much better.  You just happen to be more enamored with a single individual and give him more credit than I would be inclined to do.
[/quote]
That football example is not the same...If Art Briles had built that HJ program, I would say yes, but since he did not, I cannot go with that comparison. And secondly if Todd resigns and Clay takes over, then yes you are right, it won't miss a beat. However if he resigns and Joe Sausagehead takes over, then you may have some issues with your program very similar to what Ozen is going through right now.

[stevenash]

I want you to tell me honestly, (if you can) that Ozen has the same calibre of talent that they had in the Perkins years and the only difficulty is the man at the helm.  At the same time, explain to me why Mack Brown is not achieving what he used to achieve.

[PoppaBearstarr]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1174552" timestamp="1328733229"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.
[/quote]

99% of the time they do...

[Bigdog]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1174637" timestamp="1328741733"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174598#msg1174598 date=1328737557]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174552#msg1174552 date=1328733229]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987]
My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them)
[/quote]
OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.
[/quote]

And you and I simply differ on that.  You believe that most of it is attributable to coaching.  If you believe that, then you are simply telling me that HJ would have won the district football title this year if they had Art Briles as their coach.  I strongly disagree.  If Todd Sutherland resigns tomorrow, the program will continue to be successful.  But if they have a year or two where there isn't as much talent, one would look a little foollish to say if Todd was there the results would be so much better.  You just happen to be more enamored with a single individual and give him more credit than I would be inclined to do.
[/quote]
That football example is not the same...If Art Briles had built that HJ program, I would say yes, but since he did not, I cannot go with that comparison. And secondly if Todd resigns and Clay takes over, then yes you are right, it won't miss a beat. However if he resigns and Joe Sausagehead takes over, then you may have some issues with your program very similar to what Ozen is going through right now.
[/quote]

We had one of those Joe Sausagehead coaches in Football when I was playing...  ::)

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174640" timestamp="1328741912"]
I want you to tell me honestly, (if you can) that Ozen has the same calibre of talent that they had in the Perkins years and the only difficulty is the man at the helm.  At the same time, explain to me why Mack Brown is not achieving what he used to achieve.
[/quote]
Not even CLOSE to the 2001 or 2002 teams but VERY similar to the 2007 team that won the district (going unbeaten) and went to the state championship game.

[stevenash]

And the reason Mack Brown is not achieving what he used to achieve?

[Dick Vitale]

Of course you realize that every situation is different.  I don't have any inside knowledge as to what is going on at Texas with their football program, but I can only conclude that maybe he is a better recruiter than head coach...As for Ozen Basketball, I understand where it has been, where its going, and what needs to take place to get it back on track...Making the playoffs is just not the bar that has been set for that program...Its not enough..ESPECIALLY in THAT district.. ::)..You think HJ would accept watching Hamshire Fannett winning their district in back to back seasons, coming in 3rd in district and losing to East Chambers and Kountze? I would dare to say not.. ;)

[stevenash]

Wouldnt like it a bit but am not foolish enough to believe it can't happen.  If Brown is a good recruiter and a lesser coach, how did he get the job done a few years ago so much better than now.  After all, you are simply saying that a few years ago, he recruited well and coached poorly and this year you are saying the same thing.

[Dick Vitale]

OK so I ask you..WHY hasn't it happened at Hardin Jefferson? Why did it happen over the last 2-3 years at Ozen? It was almost INSTANT..WHY has Westbrook been in the cellar for the last 10 years? Why has Nederland improved SO much in the last 3-4 years? There is a common denominator to all of these questions, nash.

[stevenash]

Mainly because HJ has a well established Little Dribblers program that allows them to remain competitive in a football oriented district and most of the time, they have a staff that is not football oriented. They also have won 7 state golf championships but none recently and it has nothing to do with the coaches (all of whom, but one, knew little if anything about golf)  As for Westbrook, I think it would be very interesting to compare its performance before Ozen came into existence and afterward because I am pretty confident that many "would have been" Westbrook students began attending Ozen.  Did the Giants win the Superbowl because of Tom Coughlin, the same guy who coached them to something like a 9-7 record?

[Lions#80]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1174325" timestamp="1328716114"]
[quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174306#msg1174306 date=1328715292]
I would think everyone would do a little research b4 we get to discussing coaches credentials,not sure about one coach but the one at Ozen happen to play high school basketball ,but even at that ,there are a lot of things you have to take into consideration does he have parent,community, BISD(PRINCIPAL,AD, SUPERINT, PLAYERS ETC....) and last but not least how many shots did he miss (the coach),reb. did he get ,Players Play Coaches Coach.
[/quote]
No, coaches do not shoot a single shot, however, it is the head coaches responsibility to put those kids in a POSITION to win...To lose by 17 to a Livingston team that has struggled all season to get W's, and you are fighting to try to win, what USED to be a routine district championship, is unacceptable. Say what you want, thats just the truth.  Its nothing personal, but the BISD programs are falling from greatness to medicrity seemingly overnight. Why? The kids are still there.... ::)
[/quote]No matter how bad Livingston teams might be in any sports, one thing you need to remember is: I've never seen any of their teams quit or lie down for anyone. Now that's a fact Jack!! ;) ;) ;) ;)

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="Lions#80" post="1174952" timestamp="1328804184"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174325#msg1174325 date=1328716114]
[quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174306#msg1174306 date=1328715292]
I would think everyone would do a little research b4 we get to discussing coaches credentials,not sure about one coach but the one at Ozen happen to play high school basketball ,but even at that ,there are a lot of things you have to take into consideration does he have parent,community, BISD(PRINCIPAL,AD, SUPERINT, PLAYERS ETC....) and last but not least how many shots did he miss (the coach),reb. did he get ,Players Play Coaches Coach.
[/quote]
No, coaches do not shoot a single shot, however, it is the head coaches responsibility to put those kids in a POSITION to win...To lose by 17 to a Livingston team that has struggled all season to get W's, and you are fighting to try to win, what USED to be a routine district championship, is unacceptable. Say what you want, thats just the truth.  Its nothing personal, but the BISD programs are falling from greatness to medicrity seemingly overnight. Why? The kids are still there.... ::)
[/quote]No matter how bad Livingston teams might be in any sports, one thing you need to remember is: I've never seen any of their teams quit or lie down for anyone. Now that's a fact Jack!! ;) ;) ;) ;)
[/quote]
and the cheerleader is back.  8)

[BLUEDOVE3]

The one thing I've noticed about HJ, Silsbee, and Nederland is this:

A. Their not the most athletic teams

B.  Their players very seldom make it to the next level in major D-1 programs

C.  Their programs win consistently

D. Have youth programs in place ( not really sure what *major* factor plays into this)

E. Players have bought into the system (major factor)

F.  Players [color=red]understand their roles[/color] on the team. Some are better rebounders, defense, etc(major factor)

[Lions#80]

[quote name="vp32" post="1174954" timestamp="1328804277"]
[quote author=Lions#80 link=topic=95625.msg1174952#msg1174952 date=1328804184]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174325#msg1174325 date=1328716114]
[quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174306#msg1174306 date=1328715292]
I would think everyone would do a little research b4 we get to discussing coaches credentials,not sure about one coach but the one at Ozen happen to play high school basketball ,but even at that ,there are a lot of things you have to take into consideration does he have parent,community, BISD(PRINCIPAL,AD, SUPERINT, PLAYERS ETC....) and last but not least how many shots did he miss (the coach),reb. did he get ,Players Play Coaches Coach.
[/quote]
No, coaches do not shoot a single shot, however, it is the head coaches responsibility to put those kids in a POSITION to win...To lose by 17 to a Livingston team that has struggled all season to get W's, and you are fighting to try to win, what USED to be a routine district championship, is unacceptable. Say what you want, thats just the truth.  Its nothing personal, but the BISD programs are falling from greatness to medicrity seemingly overnight. Why? The kids are still there.... ::)
[/quote]No matter how bad Livingston teams might be in any sports, one thing you need to remember is: I've never seen any of their teams quit or lie down for anyone. Now that's a fact Jack!! ;) ;) ;) ;)
[/quote]
and the cheerleader is back.  8)
[/quote]Like you vp32, I've got to stand up for my team. ;D ;D

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1174966" timestamp="1328805824"]
The one thing I've noticed about HJ, Silsbee, and Nederland is this:

A. Their not the most athletic teams

B.  Their players very seldom make it to the next level in major D-1 programs

C.  Their programs win consistently

D. Have youth programs in place ( not really sure what *major* factor plays into this)

E. Players have bought into the system (major factor)

F.  Players [color=red]understand their roles[/color] on the team. Some are better rebounders, defense, etc(major factor)
[/quote]

Careful there, Dove.  Someone might get the idea that you like/respect HJ.  Maybe part of the reason nobody goes D-1 from those schools is that their main objective is for the team to do well rather than to make a player or two major college material not to mention the fact that it doesnt happen in small towns very often.