Interesting Question about district 20-4A

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1174975" timestamp="1328806832"]
If Silsbee were to play Nederland, Ozen, or Central the way they played their [b]two games against HF or their two games against WOS,[/b] then yes indeed, they would have lost several of those games.

But also, bear in mind, although HJ beat Nederland and Central, I was hazard to guess that Nederland and Central have improved much more since those earlier games than HJ has.  Those games would be neck and neck if played during district.
[/quote]


Two games? Let's see, the first game against HF was a 96-57 Silsbee win and the second game against WOS was a 79-54 Silsbee win.

I see your point about the two close wins by Silsbee over HF and WOS, but not all 4 games.

[Guest Ricthepic]

This is too easy...HJ and Silsbee go 1-2 in 20-4A. Seen both of them up close and personal, along with Ned, Central and Ozen.  Ozen would be sitting at home. MERCY.

[stevenash]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1174975" timestamp="1328806832"]
If Silsbee were to play Nederland, Ozen, or Central the way they played their two games against HF or their two games against WOS, then yes indeed, they would have lost several of those games.

But also, bear in mind, although HJ beat Nederland and Central, I was [b]hazard to guess that Nederland and Central have improved much more since those earlier games than HJ has[/b].  Those games would be neck and neck if played during district.
[/quote]

What makes you "hazard to guess" that HJs improvement vs the beginning the first of the year is not equal to or better than that of Nederland and Central?  Wouldn't you need to have seen several of each teams games since early in the season to make that guess or are you simply using recent scores as the basis?  ( recent scores dont seem to support the contention) 

[bullets13]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1174222" timestamp="1328711035"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95677.msg1174216#msg1174216 date=1328710586]
[b]Had this convo the other night[/b]....If you dropped Hardin Jefferson and Silsbee in district 20-4A, where would they finish THIS SEASON? I have a pretty good idea that this will hurt some egos on here, but its just a "hypothetical" scenario...Think about the head to head competitions here with those two 3A programs... 8)...my pick: They would finish 1 and 2... ;)...What do you guys think?
[/quote]


I remember that conversation. ;) ;D
[/quote]

i think i started this conversation 2 weeks ago at the preview show...

[bullets13]

[quote name="#1 Manager" post="1174770" timestamp="1328762257"]
Who is this "Dick" guy?  He seems like another HJ fan that thinks he is a basketball "Guru".  Here is my question since there are so many HJ fans that run this site.  Who is the best basketball guru of yalls kind on this site?      I'm having hard time picking which one I should be taking notes from!!!  ;D
[/quote]

and he's no HJ guy, either...

[bullets13]

HJ and Silsbee finish 1 and 2 in 20-4A, no question in my mind.  HJ is  8-0 against 20-4A this year, including a 25-point win over Nederland (by far their worst loss this year), and a double-digit win over central. 

Silsbee is 2-0 against 20-4A, with a win over Ozen. 


Nederland is good this year, but they have had several mediocre results against average to mediocre teams...  HJ has beaten the crap out of every team they should beat the crap out of this year, as well as several pretty good teams as well.  very few close results, even with a heavy dose of 4A oppenents in their schedule.  And Silsbee's schedule has been even tougher, with respectable results against incredibly difficult opponents. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="#1 Manager" post="1174770" timestamp="1328762257"]
Who is this "Dick" guy?  He seems like another HJ fan that thinks he is a basketball "Guru".  Here is my question since there are so many HJ fans that run this site.  Who is the best basketball guru of yalls kind on this site?      I'm having hard time picking which one I should be taking notes from!!!  ;D
[/quote]

Best Guru, without a doubt, is Da Dove.

[bullets13]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1175051" timestamp="1328816037"]
[quote author=#1 Manager link=topic=95677.msg1174770#msg1174770 date=1328762257]
Who is this "Dick" guy?  He seems like another HJ fan that thinks he is a basketball "Guru".  Here is my question since there are so many HJ fans that run this site.  Who is the best basketball guru of yalls kind on this site?      I'm having hard time picking which one I should be taking notes from!!!  ;D
[/quote]

Best Guru, without a doubt, is Da Dove.
[/quote]

If Nash, Dove, and Dickie had a child, he would be the chosen one...

[stevenash]

If Nash had a child, the poor kid wouldnt have a chance.  He would also be the first kid to be banned from the board before he ever signed on.

[bullets13]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1175063" timestamp="1328816813"]
If Nash had a child, the poor kid wouldnt have a chance.
[/quote]

the first couple seem to know their stuff pretty well... :)

[stevenash]

If that would happen, I would name that child Redundant Nash.  Additionally, I would make sure that the first words out of his mouth would be dunk-0-meter

[WILL I AM]

the fred williams classic should mix up the games a little bit I would love to see hj play ozen and central play silsbee. be mindful that 20 4a is tough district except for two every team in the district is evenly matched and anyone can loose at anytime. I may be wrong but silsbee and hj are miles ahead of teams they play. I bet some jv teams in 20 4a cld beat the other 3a teams(others meaning every body but hj and silsbee). hj and silsbee wld do well in 4a but they wouldnt trump  nederland central and ozen. no cake walk games

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1175036" timestamp="1328814396"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95677.msg1174975#msg1174975 date=1328806832]
If Silsbee were to play Nederland, Ozen, or Central the way they played their two games against HF or their two games against WOS, then yes indeed, they would have lost several of those games.

But also, bear in mind, although HJ beat Nederland and Central, I was [b]hazard to guess that Nederland and Central have improved much more since those earlier games than HJ has[/b].  Those games would be neck and neck if played during district.
[/quote]

What makes you "hazard to guess" that HJs improvement vs the beginning the first of the year is not equal to or better than that of Nederland and Central?  Wouldn't you need to have seen several of each teams games since early in the season to make that guess or are you simply using recent scores as the basis?  ( recent scores dont seem to support the contention)
[/quote]Steve, you love to question everyone's [b]opinion[/b], don't you!  i can easily say Nederland because several of their players were still in Football when they played HJ. 

Onthe flip side, HJ was in 4th gear from the very first game of the season.

[Pumper]

Hold up there.  Nederland was not missing any starter, and I'm pretty sure they weren't missing any significant players in their rotation. 

HJ just spanked them pure and simple.  Similarly, Nederland spanked HJ last year at about the same time in the season.  You can't assume that things will always be one way or the other, but this year HJ is the better team of the two. 

And evidence is strongly in favor of HJ and Silsbee both being better than anyone in that district this year.  (Note that I said [b][u]this year[/u][/b].)

[stevenash]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1175074" timestamp="1328817612"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95677.msg1175036#msg1175036 date=1328814396]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95677.msg1174975#msg1174975 date=1328806832]
If Silsbee were to play Nederland, Ozen, or Central the way they played their two games against HF or their two games against WOS, then yes indeed, they would have lost several of those games.

But also, bear in mind, although HJ beat Nederland and Central, I was [b]hazard to guess that Nederland and Central have improved much more since those earlier games than HJ has[/b].  Those games would be neck and neck if played during district.
[/quote]

What makes you "hazard to guess" that HJs improvement vs the beginning the first of the year is not equal to or better than that of Nederland and Central?  Wouldn't you need to have seen several of each teams games since early in the season to make that guess or are you simply using recent scores as the basis?  ( recent scores dont seem to support the contention)
[/quote]Steve, you love to question everyone's [b]opinion[/b], don't you!  i can easily say Nederland because several of their players were still in Football when they played HJ. 

Onthe flip side, HJ was in 4th gear from the very first game of the season.
[/quote]

Well, I always thought that this board was intended to be an avenue where ideas and opinions are exchanged.  Just curious why you felt that way.  Plenty of people (including you sometimes) play devils advocate on this board.  Have learned many things over the years by doing so.  Nederland has had a couple of letdowns in recent times(long after football is a memory) so I dont think the football theory is as valid as you do but obviously, it's only my opinion. 

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="WILL I AM" post="1175072" timestamp="1328817506"]
the fred williams classic should mix up the games a little bit I would love to see hj play ozen and central play silsbee. be mindful that 20 4a is tough district except for two every team in the district is evenly matched and anyone can loose at anytime. I may be wrong but silsbee and hj are miles ahead of teams they play. I bet some jv teams in 20 4a cld beat the other 3a teams(others meaning every body but hj and silsbee). hj and silsbee wld do well in 4a but they wouldnt trump  nederland central and ozen. no cake walk games
[/quote] I'd like to think Ozen's JV would give HJ's varsity a good fight ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1175083" timestamp="1328819257"]
[quote author=WILL I AM link=topic=95677.msg1175072#msg1175072 date=1328817506]
the fred williams classic should mix up the games a little bit I would love to see hj play ozen and central play silsbee. be mindful that 20 4a is tough district except for two every team in the district is evenly matched and anyone can loose at anytime. I may be wrong but silsbee and hj are miles ahead of teams they play. I bet some jv teams in 20 4a cld beat the other 3a teams(others meaning every body but hj and silsbee). hj and silsbee wld do well in 4a but they wouldnt trump  nederland central and ozen. no cake walk games
[/quote] I'd like to think Ozen's JV would give HJ's varsity a good fight ;)
[/quote]

What a surprise.  Does the Ozen Jv regularly beat the varsity in their scrimmages?

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1175078" timestamp="1328818410"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95677.msg1175074#msg1175074 date=1328817612]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95677.msg1175036#msg1175036 date=1328814396]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95677.msg1174975#msg1174975 date=1328806832]
If Silsbee were to play Nederland, Ozen, or Central the way they played their two games against HF or their two games against WOS, then yes indeed, they would have lost several of those games.

But also, bear in mind, although HJ beat Nederland and Central, I was [b]hazard to guess that Nederland and Central have improved much more since those earlier games than HJ has[/b].  Those games would be neck and neck if played during district.
[/quote]

What makes you "hazard to guess" that HJs improvement vs the beginning the first of the year is not equal to or better than that of Nederland and Central?  Wouldn't you need to have seen several of each teams games since early in the season to make that guess or are you simply using recent scores as the basis?  ( recent scores dont seem to support the contention)
[/quote]Steve, you love to question everyone's [b]opinion[/b], don't you!  i can easily say Nederland because several of their players were still in Football when they played HJ. 

Onthe flip side, HJ was in 4th gear from the very first game of the season.
[/quote]

Well, I always thought that this board was intended to be an avenue where ideas and opinions are exchanged.  Just curious why you felt that way.  Plenty of people (including you sometimes) play devils advocate on this board.  Have learned many things over the years by doing so.  Nederland has had a couple of letdowns in recent times(long after football is a memory) so I dont think the football theory is as valid as you do but obviously, it's only my opinion.
[/quote]well, as Pumper pointed out, I may be in error in thinking Nederland was missing a couple of starters. My bad. I may have been thinking of last years team where their center was the starting qb in football.

But in any event, HJ looked to be in mid-season form their very first game, and Sutherland has not let them lose that groove.

So IMO, its easy to think that many teams have improved since the beginning of the year more than HJ, because HJ has been that darn good since the opening tip off of the opening game.

[CThoops]

Sure, HJ and Silsbee have preformed very well against the top teams in 20-4A early in the season. Not taking anything away from them winning those games.. But the real difference here is that in 20-4A, there are no games you can really take lightly or the your opponent is going to come out and really shock you.. HJ and Silsbee have a some weeks where they know they dont have to get hyped up for, or dont have to really try.. I dont think it would be such an easy transition for them into the district..

Every team plays harder when a win actually means something, aka, closer to a play-off spot.. You put those teams into a district with Ozen, Central, and now Nederland, and you expect one of those teams to just sit out? Better come to play every single game because those wins are going to be harder and more important to get.. Just my opinion on it, It is just hypothetical 8)

[bullets13]

that's a valid point... but still, HJ and Silsbee are better than the teams in 20-4A, regardless.  maybe with those teams having played more meaningful games in district, if a 20-4A team was going to play HJ or Silsbee in a playoff warmup game, it might help them prepare for the competition of a tough game better than HJ or Silsbee's district has prepared them, but... If HJ and Silsbee were to play in the district WITH the 20-4A teams, the other teams wouldn't have the advantage over them of playing in a tougher district.  therefore your argument only works if Silsbee and HJ were going to play 20-4A teams at the end of the season, and i still don't think it would matter much.  Seeing as HJ and Silsbee dominated the best teams in 20-4A before district started, and both played schedules in pre-district as tough as a district schedule is in 20-4A, or tougher, I don't see why, if they were in the district already, they'd somehow struggle because they'd have a couple of tough games in a row.  it sure never seems to effect them when one or the other is marching to regionals and state every other year. 

[CThoops]

Its a different style of Ball then what the teams in 20-4A are used to playing.. Execution and fundamentals in the Half-court are more important and mean more in getting a victory.. As for HJ and Silsbee, better warm-up your legs and have press-breaks ready.. I think the 20-4A teams would perform much better if they were used the those types of games.. I can take heat for this comment and wont bother me, but Silsbee and HJ's players arent studs by any means.. They fit the system, like a glove.. Run the press, attack, sub when you are tired..

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1175102" timestamp="1328821052"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95677.msg1175083#msg1175083 date=1328819257]
[quote author=WILL I AM link=topic=95677.msg1175072#msg1175072 date=1328817506]
the fred williams classic should mix up the games a little bit I would love to see hj play ozen and central play silsbee. be mindful that 20 4a is tough district except for two every team in the district is evenly matched and anyone can loose at anytime. I may be wrong but silsbee and hj are miles ahead of teams they play. I bet some jv teams in 20 4a cld beat the other 3a teams(others meaning every body but hj and silsbee). hj and silsbee wld do well in 4a but they wouldnt trump  nederland central and ozen. no cake walk games
[/quote] I'd like to think Ozen's JV would give HJ's varsity a good fight ;)
[/quote]

What a surprise.  Does the Ozen Jv regularly beat the varsity in their scrimmages?
[/quote] What did I say about HJ's varsity?

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="dogs1218" post="1175115" timestamp="1328823620"]
Its a different style of Ball then what the teams in 20-4A are used to playing.. Execution and fundamentals in the Half-court are more important and mean more in getting a victory.. As for HJ and Silsbee, better warm-up your legs and have press-breaks ready.. I think the 20-4A teams would perform much better if they were used the those types of games.. I can take heat for this comment and wont bother me, but Silsbee and HJ's players arent studs by any means.. They fit the system, like a glove.. Run the press, attack, sub when you are tired..
[/quote]No, I think you're right.  And that's one of the reasons that I think HJ and Silsbee are so successful in the play-offs.  Some of those teams, who are awfully good, make you wonder if they have ever seen a decent press in their lives.

Good point.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1175116" timestamp="1328823714"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95677.msg1175102#msg1175102 date=1328821052]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95677.msg1175083#msg1175083 date=1328819257]
[quote author=WILL I AM link=topic=95677.msg1175072#msg1175072 date=1328817506]
the fred williams classic should mix up the games a little bit I would love to see hj play ozen and central play silsbee. be mindful that 20 4a is tough district except for two every team in the district is evenly matched and anyone can loose at anytime. I may be wrong but silsbee and hj are miles ahead of teams they play. I bet some jv teams in 20 4a cld beat the other 3a teams(others meaning every body but hj and silsbee). hj and silsbee wld do well in 4a but they wouldnt trump  nederland central and ozen. no cake walk games
[/quote] I'd like to think Ozen's JV would give HJ's varsity a good fight ;)
[/quote]

What a surprise.  Does the Ozen Jv regularly beat the varsity in their scrimmages?
[/quote] What did I say about HJ's varsity?
[/quote]

You said you would like to think the Ozen Jv would give HJ varsity a good fight.  I asked if the Ozen JV beats the Ozen varsity as a barometer of how Ozen Jv would do against HJ varsity.  I "would like to think" that HJ could give Flower Mound Marcus a good fight too.

[BLUEDOVE3]

Discipline! HJ players know what their limitations are and know its not allowed within their system. Typical HJ kid is not going to try and do a 360 dunk, knowing he can't even lift off the floor......just using examples ;D

If HJ has 6'10" kid, he's not going to shoot 3's....just an example HJ peeps ;D

If there are 2minutes left in the game and HJ has a 5 point lead. The HJ players knows the clock is his friend and will pull the ball out. He's not worried about that wide open shot that would pad his scoring.