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Interesting Question about district 20-4A

Dick Vitale

By Dick Vitale
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ST413

ST413

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This year and for that matter probably last year, the Tigers and HJ, would finish in the top 2 spots.  They may lose a game or two but would still end up there.  This years Tiger team has no size so that would make them vulnerable on an off night.  I don't know if HJ has had much of an off night this year. Both have proven they can beat the top teams.  I haven't seen  Central this year but have seen LCM, Ozen, and Nederland.  LCM has a big  man that would be a tough match up for the Tigers but it has been stated how they have guard problems.  You wouldn't get away with that against these Tigers.  Ozen was a game the Tigers jumped on big and then struggled to win but that was an early game.  Virtually the whole Tiger varsity hadn't been playing long.  Both teams have surely improved so these could be interesting.  Nederland has had trouble with pressure defenses, after all didn't Central just expose that.  So the Tigers would give them fits.  HJ has proven what they can do to all these teams this year.  Would it be a cakewalk...no but these two would end up on top.  Yes being the bigger schools makes that a hard pill for  you to swallow,  just get a larger glass of water!!
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bullets13

bullets13

Posted
Posted
[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1175253" timestamp="1328839033"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=95677.msg1175242#msg1175242 date=1328837450]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95677.msg1175228#msg1175228 date=1328836131]
After looking at this year's results, here is my two cents:

1. HJ would prob win this silly make believe district.

2. Silsbee, Nederland, and Central would all battle for 2nd. I came to this conclusion based on the fact that:
-All 3 have defeated: HF, WO-S, PNG, and Ozen (Central is 3-1 against
them), sorry Dickie, just the facts!  :-\
-Silsbee beat HYCA, and HYCA beat Central.
-Central beat Ned twice, Ned won one against Central.
-Nederland beat Baytown Sterling, Baytown Sterling beat Silsbee
-Central beat WB, WB beat Ned, and Silsbee went 1-1 against WB
-Ned beat Memorial twice, Central went 1-1 against them
-Ned beat Hightower, HT beat Central twice

These 3 teams seem to be even, and would probably split By winning at
home.
[/quote]

i think this is a reasonable assessment, but [b]seeing HJ struggle with Silsbee twice[/b], i honestly believe that Silsbee would finish 2nd.
[/quote]
How is this relevant? Nederland struggles with PNG all the time, bc we are rivals. We have not lost to them in 6 years or so, but 6 of the last 8 games were won by 5 or less. Central beat Ozen 3 times this year, but Ozen won the last meeting. I would guess that has a lot to do with their games being a rival. Silsbee and HJ are rivals in their district, hence HJ 'struggled' with them.
[/quote]

it's relevant because they struggled with them because they're really good, not because they're rivals.  we're not talking about 7-21 PNG keeping it close vs. nederland... we're talking about them struggling with the fastest team in the area, who's got enough talent to beat them.  comparing HJ/Silsbee to Nederland/PNG this year is like comparing apples to rocks.
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FanintheStands

FanintheStands

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Posted
[quote name="bullets13" post="1175249" timestamp="1328838036"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95677.msg1175243#msg1175243 date=1328837517]
There is something about HJ's and Silsbee's press that I'm always floored by.  When I played (no, we weren't STILL using peach baskets!) we pressed all game long.  We were pressed by teams like HJ and a few others.

But nobody was able to press on a missed shot.  The only time you could do a full court press was on a made shot.  I always marvel when I see teams get the rebound, turn around, and are staring into the teeth of a full court press.

Of course, the answer to that would be, kick the ball out and get it up the court BEFORE they can set up the Press.  I'm not sure why I don't see that done today.
[/quote]

IF the team gets too preoccupied trying to get players up the court, they're gonna get burned by HJ and Silsbee on the offensive end if guys starting cheating back the other way.  Just my opinion.
[/quote]Yeah, and I guess doing that would also cause a fast-paced game, which plays right into the hands of both teams.
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Honest Abe

Honest Abe

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Posted
[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1175274" timestamp="1328843819"]
HJ struggled (and did lose mind you ;)) with Silsbee this year because Silsbee is just flat out a very good team.

Like bullets stated, that is a very poor comparison of HJ/Silsbee and Ned/PNG as far as the quality of the teams.
[/quote]
I was comparing them as being rival games, not as a good team or a bad team. I know Silsbee is good, and I know PNG is not. Geez!
I laid out facts about common opponents of Silsbee, Central, and Nederland. There is no way anyone can convince me that Silsbee would ABSOLUTELY win 2nd in this stupid made up district scenario. I am not claiming that Nederland would win 2nd either. But if one takes their heart out of it, and look at all of the common opponents, it's safe to say that 2nd place is up for grabs.
I am simply presenting the information in an objective manner (such as how MaxPreps gets their rankings) where no heart is put into it, only measurable wins and losses.
There is no way that a Jag fan (Soulja), a Tiger fan (AAW), and a Nederland fan (me) can set aside our emotions when discussing such a hypothetical. Everyone has an opinion, but looking at the examples of common opponents, it seems to me that ANY of these 3 team's could place 2nd in this scenario. I placed HJ in 1st bc they stand out above the rest, IMO. I'm not saying they wouldn't lose a game (bc obviously Silsbee beat them already), but their body of work is more consistent than the other 3 teams.
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WILL I AM

WILL I AM

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Posted
Hj beat a ozen team who didnt have jones vaughn williams jackson or a few more players....All of the head coaches should get together and schedule a  weekend tournament and settle this conversation.  The mighty admin. on here probably could even get a trophy for the winning Team lol
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stevenash

stevenash

Posted
Posted
[quote name="WILL I AM" post="1175384" timestamp="1328888065"]
Hj beat a ozen team who didnt have jones vaughn williams jackson or a few more players....All of the head coaches should get together and schedule a  weekend tournament and settle this conversation.  The mighty admin. on here probably could even get a trophy for the winning Team lol
[/quote]

Who do you believe would be the trophy winner?
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WILL I AM

WILL I AM

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First off silsbee hj nederland all have  something the kids at ozen or central dont have. and that a strong little dribbler's program that filters kids directly into their programs. coaches put their hands on kids as early as 3rd grade and the kid and the coach knows they wil be a hawk or a tiger....Beaumont has a pretty decent little dribble program but it isnt a shadow of any specific highschool program. As far as who would win the trophy I honestly couldnt say. I have respect for each program in the conversation. Each has proven to be dominate over the years. The only way to settle this is to simply PLAY THE GAMES. it would be great for setx.
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Dick Vitale

Dick Vitale

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[quote name="stevenash" post="1175431" timestamp="1328892216"]
Sounds like you might be a supporter for a sort of Golden Triangle Only Tournament next year?
[/quote]
The 3A/4A/5A Golden Triangle Challenge......Hmmmmm...Wheels are turning....This might be a GREAT IDEA, actually...It would pull better than the YMBL...PA Memorial, Westbrook, Ozen, Central, Nederland, LCM, WOS, HJ, Silsbee, Kountze, Kelly, EC, Anahuac, Big Sandy, Evadale, Jasper, Hamshire Fannett....Maybe include Cleveland, Coldspring, North Shore, Baytown Lee, Baytown Sterling, and Channelview to make it BIGGER...Hmmmm...THIS CAN BE DONE....Next season...AAW? What do ya think? Find a large enough venue or two to host it..NOT A BAD IDEA.. 8)
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JS

JS

Posted
Posted
[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1175445" timestamp="1328893028"]
First weekend in December...EVERYBODY won't be in the playoffs THAT long!  ;) :D...It would be HUGE!
[/quote]Fantastic idea and I would love to see it but I doubt everyone involved could put aside their own petty self-interest long enough to get it done
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stevenash

stevenash

Posted
Posted
[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1175441" timestamp="1328892670"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95677.msg1175431#msg1175431 date=1328892216]
Sounds like you might be a supporter for a sort of Golden Triangle Only Tournament next year?
[/quote]
The 3A/4A/5A Golden Triangle Challenge......Hmmmmm...Wheels are turning....This might be a GREAT IDEA, actually...It would pull better than the YMBL...PA Memorial, Westbrook, Ozen, Central, Nederland, LCM, WOS, HJ, Silsbee, Kountze, Kelly, EC, Anahuac, Big Sandy, Evadale, Jasper, Hamshire Fannett....Maybe include Cleveland, Coldspring, North Shore, Baytown Lee, Baytown Sterling, and Channelview to make it BIGGER...Hmmmm...THIS CAN BE DONE....Next season...AAW? What do ya think? Find a large enough venue or two to host it..NOT A BAD IDEA.. 8)
[/quote]

If we can get this together, I would like to nominate Dove as the honorary Chairman of the event.
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AggiesAreWe

AggiesAreWe

Posted
Posted
YMBL has been trying to do this the last several years, but some local teams just refuse to play in it.

The locals that played in the YMBL this season:

Beaumont Central
Beaumont Ozen
Beaumont West Brook
PNG
WOS
Nederland
Silsbee
PA Memorial
LCM

Also, North Shore played, and they are in our local 5A district.


The "out-of-towners" were:

Dallas Kimball
Dallas South Oak Cliff
Fort Bend Ridge Point
Fort Bend Hightower
New Orleans Perry Walker
Lufkin


Replace those six with these six:

Hardin-Jefferson
Hamshire-Fannett
Jasper
Kountze
East Chambers
Evadale



It would then become more of a local tourney but the overall quality of the teams would take a big hit.
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AggiesAreWe

AggiesAreWe

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Posted
[quote name="stevenash" post="1175461" timestamp="1328894313"]
How do you think the gate receipts would compare?
[/quote]

More than likely would draw better crowds with more locals.

I just don't see it happening because some of the smaller schools just do not want to play the local 5A and 4A teams.
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BLUEDOVE3

BLUEDOVE3

Posted
Posted
[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1175465" timestamp="1328894848"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95677.msg1175461#msg1175461 date=1328894313]
How do you think the gate receipts would compare?
[/quote]

More than likely would draw better crowds with more locals.

I just don't see it happening because some of the smaller schools just do not want to play the local 5A and 4A teams.
[/quote]I don't think the smaller schools should play. It should be a competitive tourney and not watered down. There will be enough watered down teams in 4& 5A
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AggiesAreWe

AggiesAreWe

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Posted
Locally, we only have two 5A's and seven 4A's. (unless of course you include North Shore, Baytown Sterling, Livingston and any of the 19-4A teams). To complete a 16 team field you would need to add 7 more teams. Other than HJ, Silsbee, WOS and HF, who else would fill out the brackets?
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BLUEDOVE3

BLUEDOVE3

Posted
Posted
[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1175479" timestamp="1328895816"]
Locally, we only have two 5A's and seven 4A's. (unless of course you include North Shore, Baytown Sterling, Livingston and any of the 19-4A teams). To complete a 16 team field you would need to add 7 more teams. Other than HJ, Silsbee, WOS and HF, who else would fill out the brackets?
[/quote]Doubt if HJ will be a serious contender next year. Probably should scratch them off the list
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bullets13

bullets13

Posted
Posted
[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1175502" timestamp="1328899252"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=95677.msg1175479#msg1175479 date=1328895816]
Locally, we only have two 5A's and seven 4A's. (unless of course you include North Shore, Baytown Sterling, Livingston and any of the 19-4A teams). To complete a 16 team field you would need to add 7 more teams. Other than HJ, Silsbee, WOS and HF, who else would fill out the brackets?
[/quote]Doubt if HJ will be a serious contender next year. Probably should scratch them off the list
[/quote]

you're right... but they won't be bad at all... still better than HF, and possibly WOS.  Include Coldspring, Cleveland, and Splendora in the tourney.  That would give it a boost.
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