Central, Nederland boys basketball coaches disagree on how to settle tie

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1179887" timestamp="1329490517"]
[b]This should end this one...It is up to the discretion of the head coach, and whatever he feels his team needs at this point in the season...Central's coach said they had injuries and wanted to heal..Don't see an issue with that..Silsbee's coach wanted to see a different opponent for the playoff run..no problem with that either...Its not about fear[/b], its more about knowing what YOUR team needs at this time...Its not about what the fans "want to see" right now either... its about what your team needs to be succesful in the playoffs.

[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95984.msg1179885#msg1179885 date=1329490350]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95984.msg1179880#msg1179880 date=1329490047]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95984.msg1179818#msg1179818 date=1329486520]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=95984.msg1179778#msg1179778 date=1329455650]
Not playing the game to avoid injury?  IMO Central simply wanted to go into the playoffs coming off of a win. Yes I know, Central has beat Ned 2 out of 3 games, but ask any coach how hard it is to beat a good opponent 3 times in one year. Valid arguments for playing or not playing, but IMO you always play this game.
[/quote]well, it would seem that the great minds at HJ and Silsbee would disagree with you.  More often than not, in recent times, they have
bypassed this game.
[/quote]
Maybe so, but they both have a play-in game this year, as they did last year. They are not AVOIDING a game bc of fear of injury. They see the importance to play A game to avoid a long lapse since their last one.
The Nederland kids voted, and WANTED to play this game.
[/quote]

[b]Agreed- I think the rhythm is altered when they miss the game next Tuesday.  The injury claim is a crock- that risk is run every time you step on the floor to practice or play[/b]
[/quote]

I DO agree with this statement.
[/quote]

Dickie- Then you OBVIOUSLY agree that the emboldened part of your statement also applies to whom the discretion used by the coach to select his schedule each year, right?

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1179925" timestamp="1329493884"]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95984.msg1179922#msg1179922 date=1329493294]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95984.msg1179917#msg1179917 date=1329492258]
On a neutral court...[b]I would say that Central did them a FAVOR[/b], by conceding...They beat them 2 out of 3 games already only losing to them at Nederland...So say thanks to Central's coach for allowing you guys to keep that CO-district title.... 8)
[/quote]
P-lease!!  ::)
::) ::)
Hard to beat a team that many times in a year, just look at the last OZ/Central game. After 3 straight Central wins, Ozen got them one.
U can only base the outcome of this game on the 2 district matches. Nobody looks at a preseason game from over 2 months ago, and tries to make it relevant. Come on DV, I expect more out of you than that! That's weak, and you know it!!
[/quote]
[b]So you are not going to count your pre-district wins[/b]? I mean,
apparently you wanna discount your pre-district losses...BOTH teams were at the same point of the season...They DOMINATED Nederland at
Central....I came up with that based on the LAST game they played...it wasn't even close...YOU know that... ::) ::)...The concession by Central FAVORED Nederland in more ways than one. ;)
[/quote]
Why should I count them when you clearly don't count them? Since all that matters to you is a State Title. Heck, U barely count district titles, right?

Tell me this: when the Lakers and Celtics play for the NBA Championship, do they count their regular season games? Do u think Galveston Ball said, oh ya, well y'all (Lamarque) may have won Regionals (and lost the state title), but we beat y'all twice in district? I don't think so!

[FanintheStands]

It's simple. A coach wants his team to go as deep in the play-offs as possible. As mentioned, a district title means little when the district runner up goes deeper in the play-offs.  The fans may want to see a district championship, but they want to see a Regional run and even a State Far More!

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1179947" timestamp="1329495744"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95984.msg1179925#msg1179925 date=1329493884]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95984.msg1179922#msg1179922 date=1329493294]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95984.msg1179917#msg1179917 date=1329492258]
On a neutral court...[b]I would say that Central did them a FAVOR[/b], by conceding...They beat them 2 out of 3 games already only losing to them at Nederland...So say thanks to Central's coach for allowing you guys to keep that CO-district title.... 8)
[/quote]
P-lease!!  ::) ::) ::)
Hard to beat a team that many times in a year, just look at the last OZ/Central game. After 3 straight Central wins, Ozen got them one.
U can only base the outcome of this game on the 2 district matches. Nobody looks at a preseason game from over 2 months ago, and tries to make it relevant. Come on DV, I expect more out of you than that! That's weak, and you know it!!
[/quote]
[b]So you are not going to count your pre-district wins[/b]? I mean, apparently you wanna discount your pre-district losses...BOTH teams were at the same point of the season...They DOMINATED Nederland at
Central....I came up with that based on the LAST game they played...it wasn't even close...YOU know that... ::) ::)...The concession by Central FAVORED Nederland in more ways than one. ;)
[/quote]
Why should I count them when you clearly don't count them? Since all that matters to you is a State Title, u barely count district titles, right?

Tell me this: when the Lakers and Celtics play for the NBA Championship, do they count their regular season games? Do u think Galveston Ball said, oh ya, well y'all (Lamarque) may have won Regionals (and lost the state title), but we beat y'all twice in district? I don't think so!
[/quote]
Well I wouldnt say that winning state is ALL that matters.... ::)....Just win the region...how about we start there... ;D...Really Dawg, wouldn't you say that your team was beaten convincingly at Central? Is it SAFE to assume that on a neutral court, the outcome would be similar? Now remember, you guys won 1 out of 3 so far against them, and that was at your home gym by less than 5..Wouldn't you say that my prediction has SOME validity?

[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95984.msg1179942#msg1179942 date=1329495484]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95984.msg1179887#msg1179887 date=1329490517]
[b]This should end this one...It is up to the discretion of the head coach, and whatever he feels his team needs at this point in the season...Central's coach said they had injuries and wanted to heal..Don't see an issue with that..Silsbee's coach wanted to see a different opponent for the playoff run..no problem with that either...Its not about fear[/b], its more about knowing what YOUR team needs at this time...Its not about what the fans "want to see" right now either... its about what your team needs to be succesful in the playoffs.

[quote author=stevenash link=topic=95984.msg1179885#msg1179885 date=1329490350]
[quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=95984.msg1179880#msg1179880 date=1329490047]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95984.msg1179818#msg1179818 date=1329486520]
[quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=95984.msg1179778#msg1179778 date=1329455650]
Not playing the game to avoid injury?  IMO Central simply wanted to go into the playoffs coming off of a win. Yes I know, Central has beat Ned 2 out of 3 games, but ask any coach how hard it is to beat a good opponent 3 times in one year. Valid arguments for playing or not playing, but IMO you always play this game.
[/quote]well, it would seem that the great minds at HJ and Silsbee would disagree with you.  More often than not, in recent times, they have
bypassed this game.
[/quote]
Maybe so, but they both have a play-in game this year, as they did last year. They are not AVOIDING a game bc of fear of injury. They see the importance to play A game to avoid a long lapse since their last one.
The Nederland kids voted, and WANTED to play this game.
[/quote]

[b]Agreed- I think the rhythm is altered when they miss the game next Tuesday.  The injury claim is a crock- that risk is run every time you step on the floor to practice or play[/b]
[/quote]

I DO agree with this statement.
[/quote]

Dickie- Then you OBVIOUSLY agree that the emboldened part of your statement also applies to whom the discretion used by the coach to select his schedule each year, right?
[/quote]

I concur with that statement...Bluedove3 is the gentleman that thinks you guys have a schedule that should be titled "Cupcake City" in the pre-district by playing 1A and below talent... ::)...BLUEDOVE3, you there? Or did that bus just run you over that I threw you under?  ;D ;D

[stevenash]

I may want to interview the Dove and get a copy of the results his scheduling expertise has produced over the years.  If it is that impressive, I have some good connections at HJ and am confident I could get them to take advantage of his knowledge.

[Honest Abe]

No DV, Ned beat Central by 17 (51-34) in the 1st District matchup. Central beat Ned by 15 (49-34) in Beaumont. I would say that BOTH games were lopsided, so a game at a neutral site SHOULD be anyone's game. U can't count a game that was played 68 days ago and not count one from 38 days ago.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1179965" timestamp="1329497234"]
No DV, Ned beat Central by 17 (51-34) in the 1st District matchup. Central beat Ned by 15 (49-34) in Beaumont. I would say that BOTH games were lopsided, so a game at a neutral site SHOULD be anyone's game. U can't count a game that was played 68 days ago and not count one from 38 days ago.
[/quote]
You are right..I was thinking about the Ozen game in Nederland...I stand corrected...You guys COULD have had a shot to beat them if you would have played again...20-4A... :-X

[BLUEDOVE3]

I'm on record stating my opinions about the [s]cupcake[/s]  [s]powder-puff [/s]  HJ schedule  ;D

[Pumper]

Kountze, Nederland, Central, LCM, Jacksonville, Kingwood Park, Silsbee, WOS, HF

Doubt any of the above would appreciate being compared to pastries...

[stevenash]

Doesnt matter if they played 25 straight games against Our Mary Mother Of The Blind- They are still playing and thats what counts

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1179935" timestamp="1329495003"]
[quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=95984.msg1179927#msg1179927 date=1329494006]
NB, you seem to conveniently forgotten what was stated in that article.  There were other reasons that the Central staff (not the players since i thought it was the coaches say that has the final word) elected not to play this game.  Weve beaten Nederland twice already and the title would not change reguardless.  Also, we dont care about the difference in seeding.  Seem that your implying that Centeal is SCARED to play Nederland.  Ummm. Excuse me, but WHY would that be the case?
[/quote]
Not scared, Central just seems content with a Co-District Championship. As I mentioned, I kinda understand that mindset since it's been 12 years since the last time they won a district title. Maybe Nederland's kids would feel the same if we had not won (or shared) the last 2 years. In my generation, 2nd didn't mean anything except that your team is sitting on the couch come playoff time. That's the mentality I am instilling in my son's mind as well. Hopefully it will pay off!
[/quote]You just dont get it.  No matter what would have happened, they would be codistrict champs, period.  The titles wouldn't have changed.  This has Nothing to do with central's past district titles at all.  The coach just didnt see a benefit in playimg Nederland.  We have the big picture in sight.  We unstant that Nederland may have went from Cellar dweller to district title within the last 2 or 3 years.  But Nederland are no one to be scared of.  And stop trying to feed us that 'Central is content with their codistrict championship' stuff.  Fact of the matter is that we've beaten you already AT Nederland while understaffed and blown you out at home.  Dont you know that it would'nt be a problem with beating ypu a third time?  Just roll with the reasons that Central's staff have given you and stop trying to invent another reason to detract from what Coach Lee said.

[AggiesAreWe]

I think the biggest point that folks are missing here is that Nederland wanted to play this game because it gave them the opportunity to play an extra game. Not playing the seed game keeps Nederland from playing this weekend because they have played their limit of 21 regular season games. They are not allowed to play a warm up game.

IMO, that is the biggest reason why Coach English wanted to play the seed game.

[team first]

If they would have both agreed to play for the outright district championship, then it wouldn't have been co. Both coaches would have had to agree to this. Nederland wanted to play for out right champs

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="team first" post="1180079" timestamp="1329508993"]
If they would have both agreed to play for the outright district championship, then it wouldn't have been co. Both coaches would have had to agree to this. Nederland wanted to play for out right champs
[/quote]No matter what, they wouldve finished with the same district record and they wouldve went in the books as codistrict champs.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="team first" post="1180079" timestamp="1329508993"]
If they would have both agreed to play for the outright district championship, then it wouldn't have been co. Both coaches would have had to agree to this. Nederland wanted to play for out right champs
[/quote]
Thank You! I've only said that 3 times, yet you are the 1st to acknowledge this FACT! The rules have changed since two years ago when Ned beat Ozen. Although Ned won, both team's are in the books as 'Co-Champs'. The rule now states that if BOTH team's agree that the game is for the outright district title, then the winner will be the team in the books with the title, less the 'Co-'.
Yes Soulja, y'all blew us out in Beaumont, just like we blew y'all out in Nederland! Are you really bringing up their game in December as the deciding factor? Please! The FACT remains that Ned wanted to play a game this weekend to decide the out-right district champ, and Lee did not. Regardless of their reason, Central was CONTENT with being 'Co-Champs'!
BTW-Nowhere did I say Central was scared to play the game.

[team first]

Not if they both would have agreed to play it for the district championship. Of course that's only what the district policy says.
Now the game could have been played just for seedings, if one team choose not to play if for out right district champs.
Ned wanted to play for out right district champs.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1180081" timestamp="1329509536"]
[quote author=team first link=topic=95984.msg1180079#msg1180079 date=1329508993]
If they would have both agreed to play for the outright district championship, then it wouldn't have been co. Both coaches would have had to agree to this. Nederland wanted to play for out right champs
[/quote]No matter what, they wouldve finished with the same district record and they wouldve went in the books as codistrict champs.
[/quote]
No. U are incorrect on that. The rule is different this year than it was two years ago. The current options are:
1. Play the game for District Title AND seedings
2. Play the game for seeding only. Both team's are still co-champs
3. Concede the seeding, but remain co-champs
4. Flip for seeding, remain co-champs

Nederland wanted option #1. Central wanted #4. They settled on 3.

[team first]

I bet if u asked the central kids what they wanted, they would have choose to play.

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1180086" timestamp="1329510759"]
[quote author=team first link=topic=95984.msg1180079#msg1180079 date=1329508993]
If they would have both agreed to play for the outright district championship, then it wouldn't have been co. Both coaches would have had to agree to this. Nederland wanted to play for out right champs
[/quote]
Thank You! I've only said that 3 times, yet you are the 1st to acknowledge this FACT! The rules have changed since two years ago when Ned beat Ozen. Although Ned won, both team's are in the books as 'Co-Champs'. The rule now states that if BOTH team's agree that the game is for the outright district title, then the winner will be the team in the books with the title, less the 'Co-'.
Yes Soulja, y'all blew us out in Beaumont, just like we blew y'all out in Nederland! Are you really bringing up their game in December as the deciding factor? Please! The FACT remains that Ned wanted to play a game this weekend to decide the out-right district champ, and Lee did not. Regardless of their reason, Central was CONTENT with being 'Co-Champs'!
BTW-Nowhere did I say Central was scared to play the game.
[/quote]Name the other reasons that was reported quoted by the Jags boss why they elected not to play this game.  Stop with the selective comprehension.

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="team first" post="1180091" timestamp="1329511112"]
I bet if u asked the central kids what they wanted, they would have choose to play.
[/quote]Do you REALLY want decisions like this to be made by a bunch of teenagers?  Im sure the kids would want cake and ice cream every day all day.  Does this happen?  Yall are killing me. Its just a freaking seeding. 

[BMTSoulja1]

Keep winning in these playoffs and you get to have your chance to play us again.  That way, the Nederland kids, the Central kids, and both Coaching  staffs (everyone including me and you) can be happy.  ::)

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1180095" timestamp="1329511327"]
[quote author=team first link=topic=95984.msg1180091#msg1180091 date=1329511112]
I bet if u asked the central kids what they wanted, they would have choose to play.
[/quote]Do you REALLY want decisions like this to be made by a bunch of teenagers?  Im sure the kids would want cake and ice cream every day all day.  Does this happen?  Yall are killing me. Its just a freaking seeding.
[/quote]And once one team loses out while the other stays in the play-offs, the District seeding will be a non-issue.... a moot point.... a big goose-egg..... a red herring.

[team first]

Coaches still make the final decisions, but I believe this is a little different than cake and ice cream. Not really a good comparison.

The Ned, kids where given a choice and everyone voted to play for out right champs. I believe English is a pretty darn good coach. By him asking his kids, does that mean he offers em ice cream before games?

U are killing me

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1180102" timestamp="1329511701"]
Keep winning in these playoffs and you get to have your chance to play us again.  That way, the Nederland kids, the Central kids, and both Coaching  staffs (everyone including me and you) can be happy.  ::)
[/quote]
Nothing would make me more happy than to see both of our schools make it that far this year. DV will say no way since our district is so weak.  ::)
Here is my first round prediction: 20-4A sweeps 19-4A!

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1180001" timestamp="1329500582"]
Doesnt matter if they played 25 straight games against Our Mary Mother Of The Blind- They are still playing and thats what counts
[/quote]LOL! Weren't they on this years's schedule again, Nash?  ;D ;D