USSSA Special

[td]

[quote name="rounder17" post="1187572" timestamp="1330449993"]
[quote author=td link=topic=96232.msg1187546#msg1187546 date=1330447804]
[quote author=knucklehead link=topic=96232.msg1187504#msg1187504 date=1330444856]
[quote author=VP 93...... link=topic=96232.msg1187452#msg1187452 date=1330441448]
[quote author=rounder17 link=topic=96232.msg1187445#msg1187445 date=1330440885]
[quote author=VP 93...... link=topic=96232.msg1187420#msg1187420 date=1330438525]
[quote author=rounder17 link=topic=96232.msg1187376#msg1187376 date=1330436751]
[quote author=MJB link=topic=96232.msg1187314#msg1187314 date=1330420341]
I do agree with the comments regarding the operations and facilities in Sulphur, they are far above what Jefferson County provides.  However, they do have some nice facilities at the SPAR (Sulphur Parks and Recreation) locations but they come with a price. We Texans don't pay a state income tax and some of those funds come from those taxes as well as the casino revenue taxes.  They have Wards set up within the Parishes(counties) that allocate and govern the $$ and amenities.

Look at Frasch Park and the nice place they have there as well as the water park.  That water park is a great deal for $4 a day for non City residents.

In most all cases, Louisiana spends money on facilities for both the local residents as well as the facilities that generate $$ for the local economy.  Back when Frasch got hit by Rita, they decided to make it a better place and build a softball complex that would allow the high school state tournament to be held all in one place.  They made the proposal, got it and off to the races they went.  Now they have both softball and select baseball over there using the parks and it is a boom to the area.  Nice work if you ask me.

Just for the record, we did get re-classed today, lol.  It took some losses but we were in the wrong division from the get go.

On another note, can anyone explain why all these coaches are playing kids on the field that are not on the roster?  Either I am naive or this is a bigger problem than people think.  I heard a local team had to forfeit a semifinal game yesterday and another one had maybe 4?? kids play that weren't listed on the roster.

What is going on??
[/quote]

Probably an [b]honest mistake[/b]. I almost forgot to add the last player I picked up. Had it not been for his dad, I would have.

[b]Does anyone know how I can get usssa directors to stop calling me about tournents[/b]? I get the e-mails, but don't want the calls?
[/quote]

I'm sure is was ;) but i bet, if it was Tillery's or Brian's Team you be on here ripping those guys and USSSA...He reads this form, just state your REAL name or your teams name or PM it to me and he would be glad to take you off the list...
[/quote]

Haha. You crack me up. Why are you so defensive? [b]I wasn't even talking about Tillery. [/b] [b]People from out of town keep calling me about tournaments. My question is, why do they call and send e-mails, and how can I change my usssa team info so they will not call[/b]?

As for the kid not being on the roster, he has been on their team only,  for the last 5 months. He wasn't some kid they picked up last minute, or decided, hey let's get that kid out of the stands to play.
[/quote]
..When you sign up for a usssa tournament they ask for that information to send updates etc..so PM me your name or teams name and it will be taking care of or you can contact your local Director..
[/quote]You mean to tell me that a coach actually protested a semi-final game here due to a roster oversight, that is embarrasing!  If they won the final game and got a trophey, I hope they explained to the kids on the team that is not how to earn one!
[/quote]


How do you know it was a roster oversight? I'm not familiar with what happened but two years ago we lost track of how much our pitcher had thrown and were called on it when he threw the first pitch over the limit. No one had to make me forfeit. I gathered my team up and we shook hands and then I took them off to the side and explained that I made a mistake and there were rules and that we had to play by them just as everyone else does.

How about the coach that played the ineligible kid use it as a teaching experience and take the blame for his mistake instead of complaining that the other team wanted to play by the rules?

Again I don't have a dog in this fight but I do think that as coaches we have moments that we can teach things other than baseball. Seems like this is one of those moments. Just my opinion.

td
[/quote]

How do you know the coach didn't take the blame for his mistake? Im  sure he wasn't complaining the other team wanted to play by the rules. He understands he messed up and that it cost his players. The only person complaining was the opposing coach. Complaining about his parents forcing him to protest, because he didn't want to do it.
[/quote]


Sorry if I didn't explain myself. I mentioned that I didn't have info about this situation. Therefore, I was just speaking about a situation in general. I didn't mean to say anything about the other coach. You are right maybe he did take responsibility, I don't know and didn't mean to come across as if I did know or didn't know. I was mainly responding to the fact that it was implied or I took it as implied that it was an oversight and the other team should be embarrassed.

If it is or was indeed the Gladiators coach I don't know him therefore didn't intend to have an opinion on him. Just a situation.

td

[Dog4Life]

I can’t believe I’m getting sucked into this topic but the STUPIDITY of some of these posters is amazing. Allen Harrington is a grown man and the leader of this team (12u Prospects Red) , I can assure you he wasn’t “forced” into doing a thing. If I’m not mistaken (and I’m not) the opinions of the parents were mixed.
Coach discussed and explained the situation with HIS team and the decision was made to play the championship. Which we won FAIR and SQUARE!
As far as the ineligible player, really not concerned if it was an oversight or not. Rules are the rules and we all have to live (and play ball) by them.

Tony Babino

[knucklehead]

[quote name="Dog4Life" post="1187721" timestamp="1330463576"]
I can’t believe I’m getting sucked into this topic but the STUPIDITY of some of these posters is amazing. Allen Harrington is a grown man and the leader of this team (12u Prospects Red) , I can assure you he wasn’t “forced” into doing a thing. If I’m not mistaken (and I’m not) the opinions of the parents were mixed.
Coach discussed and explained the situation with HIS team and the decision was made to play the championship. Which we won FAIR and SQUARE!
As far as the ineligible player, really not concerned if it was an oversight or not. Rules are the rules and we all have to live (and play ball) by them.

Tony Babino
[/quote]
Agreed that rules are rules and we all should play by them or we are subject to the consequences. I dont think anyone would argue that your team won the tournament Fair and Square! But, just because a tournament rule was broken does not mean that it had to lead to a protest and game forfeiture, following the outcome of the game.  Those coaches who were former standout players and now managers are from the same fraternal group and there is a bond and mutual respect for one another, more than many can imagine. These are the guys from the trenches who know what it takes to play the game and the emotions that go along with it for these young guys.  I am not sure what was accomplished in this situation other than your coaches lack of leadership and lack of respect to for opposing coach and his kids.  I have one question for the parents. Why did the coach wait until the game was over to protest a roster error and not protest earlier during the game when it was discovered?  I am just curious!!!     

[Dog4Life]

Ah, so now its a question of WHEN he should have said something ? Funny stuff.  I have no idea why and really dont care, bottom line this could have all been avoided if what? Say it.........if what? Thank you!
For you to come on here and bash the parents and question our coaches leadership and loyality simply proves your name is very accurate.
Not going to speak for Allen but theres no doubt in my mind he cares about EVERY kid on that field his  team or not but his loyalty is exactly where it should be, with Prospect Baseball and the kids that bust thier tails for him.

Tony Babino

[knucklehead]

[quote name="Dog4Life" post="1187863" timestamp="1330472291"]
Ah, so now its a question of WHEN he should have said something ? Funny stuff.  I have no idea why and really dont care, bottom line this could have all been avoided if what? Say it.........if what? Thank you!
For you to come on here and bash the parents and question our coaches leadership and loyality simply proves your name is very accurate.
Not going to speak for Allen but theres no doubt in my mind he cares about EVERY kid on that field his  team or not but his loyalty is exactly where it should be, with Prospect Baseball and the kids that bust thier tails for him.

Tony Babino
[/quote]I knew that I could get a spirited response from you. In Nations, I dont think you can protest the roster once the game has begun, at least that is what I recall.  Bottom line, its a technical mistake, we have all made it and they took advantage of it.  Dont really care why, but its no way to win a tournament for your team.  And, what I mean is that you have a very talented team and I would have hoped for a different response from this situation.  I would have expected a lesser quality team to have done this for a chance for a tournament victory, not you guys! Take it as a compliment because your guys will have plenty of victories and tournament wins this season without having to protest.  That was my point, just because you found a glitch, doesnt mean that it had to be acted upon.  Too many parents are focused on the win and the trophy, regardless of how they are earned.  I think that it teaches a poor lesson to the kids to advance in that manner. Make them earn it from winning the game!  I dont have a dog in this fight, just a bystander hoping that parents let the kids play ball and let the coaches make decisions without being pursuaded into something they dont want to do.  Its the coach who has to live with that decision, not the parents!

[Dog4Life]

So, it was still a PARENT decesion huh? Where you getting you info from bro, cause you dont know what your talking about. As far as trophys, this group has been together for years and im sure im not the only one that has em on my kitchen counter now.

[MJB]

[quote]Bottom line, its a technical mistake, we have all made it and they took advantage of it.....Dont really care why, but its no way to win a tournament for your team.....That was my point, just because you found a glitch, doesnt mean that it had to be acted upon.  I think that it teaches a poor lesson to the kids to advance in that manner. Make them earn it from winning the game!......  I dont have a dog in this fight, just a bystander hoping that parents let the kids play ball and let the coaches make decisions without being pursuaded into something they dont want to do.  Its the coach who has to live with that decision, not the parents![/quote]

I just can't comprehend some of these statements above. I guess you just bend the rules until they fit your predicament?  As a coach, you have a lot of responsibility to your team as well as the parents that are paying you (in most cases, not sure about these coaches involved).  You have to play by the rules, otherwise, why even have rules?  As td stated, this is a teaching moment for both teams.  To the winner, it proves you play by the rules and are rewarded, to the loser, it proves that if you don't play by the rules you get burned when you get caught.  I wouldn't want to face those parents on the losing team because of a mistake on my part, something that only takes a minute to add a player.

I wonder how you would react if the tables were turned?  Say your kids work their tails off in HS Football, travel the whole road and you get beat in the State Finals, by a team of players that can't pass their classes, would you feel the same way?  I mean it is just a little technicality right?

Rules are Rules, they are there for a reason, to be followed.  I think there are too many people out there living under the old adage, "It's not cheating until you get caught."  I guess this guy got caught, small technicality or not.

[cantbeat23]

very well said babs and mjb but i think i want to chime just a bit. these simple minded people, knucklehead said that the coach should tell his boys that is not the way you earn it ha! thats funny.. what our coaches did is teach them a lesson that cheaters never win and winners never cheat. he called them on it and it cost his team a chance at a tournament championship. if you expect us to believe that the coaches didnt have a clue what they were doing, well not a chance..  thier the the ones who should be ashamed,  its just unfortunate for them young men on the gladiators that played there butt off for thier coaches in question, that they had to forfit the game.. what a fine example thier setting for them boys, the parents should be proud NOT!! the sad thing is they didnt have cheat they would have won the game without the illegal player. bottom line is we didnt play good enough to win that game,  but the rules are the rules..  i personally know each parent on the prospects team and i think it safe to say that not anyone of them would ever say they would leave if he didnt forfit over a rules violation.. get your facts straight,  that is far from the truth....we take our lumps and stand tall with our heads held high hoping we get the chance to meet again.. because honestly i believe if we played 10 games against them, the win they got the other night, would be thier only one jus sayin PROUD PROSPECTS DAD "CANTBEAT23"

[rounder17]

[quote name="cantbeat23" post="1188435" timestamp="1330488564"]
very well said babs and mjb but i think i want to chime just a bit. these simple minded people, knucklehead said that the coach should tell his boys that is not the way you earn it ha! thats funny.. what our coaches did is teach them a lesson that cheaters never win and winners never cheat. he called them on it and it cost his team a chance at a tournament championship. if you expect us to believe that the coaches didnt have a clue what they were doing, well not a chance..  thier the the ones who should be ashamed,  its just unfortunate for them young men on the gladiators that played there butt off for thier coaches in question, that they had to forfit the game.. what a fine example thier setting for them boys, the parents should be proud NOT!! the sad thing is they didnt have cheat they would have won the game without the illegal player. bottom line is we didnt play good enough to win that game,  but the rules are the rules..  i personally know each parent on the prospects team and i think it safe to say that not anyone of them would ever say they would leave if he didnt forfit over a rules violation.. get your facts straight,  that is far from the truth....we take our lumps and stand tall with our heads held high hoping we get the chance to meet again.. because honestly i believe if we played 10 games against them, the win they got the other night, would be thier only one jus sayin PROUD PROSPECTS DAD "CANTBEAT23"
[/quote]

Lol. Get me whatever this guy is on.  Im sure you will get your chance. Don't get me wrong, you guys have a very solid team, but to say the 12u gladiators will go 1-9 against y'all is highly unlikely. Keep adding that fuel to the fire buddy. Next time the "illegal"player that they have  "cheated" with for the last 5 months, will be legal. Oops did I tell you he has been playing the last 5 months with them? I better be quiet before you have Allen make them forfeit all their games from the past 5 months.

[Po83ned]

I heard that the kid that pitched the entire game except 1out was on the roster.  I also heard that the kid was taught by harrington.  I wonder how it felt for him to cut the throat of his own creation.  I have talked to the kids parents and they are over it.  In the end each kid and parent knows who won that game and it was not the team on record.

[td]

[quote name="knucklehead" post="1187908" timestamp="1330474560"]
[quote author=Dog4Life link=topic=96232.msg1187863#msg1187863 date=1330472291]
Ah, so now its a question of WHEN he should have said something ? Funny stuff.  I have no idea why and really dont care, bottom line this could have all been avoided if what? Say it.........if what? Thank you!
For you to come on here and bash the parents and question our coaches leadership and loyality simply proves your name is very accurate.
Not going to speak for Allen but theres no doubt in my mind he cares about EVERY kid on that field his  team or not but his loyalty is exactly where it should be, with Prospect Baseball and the kids that bust thier tails for him.

Tony Babino
[/quote]I knew that I could get a spirited response from you. In Nations, I dont think you can protest the roster once the game has begun, at least that is what I recall.  Bottom line, its a technical mistake, we have all made it and they took advantage of it.  Dont really care why, but its no way to win a tournament for your team.  And, what I mean is that you have a very talented team and I would have hoped for a different response from this situation.  I would have expected a lesser quality team to have done this for a chance for a tournament victory, not you guys! Take it as a compliment because your guys will have plenty of victories and tournament wins this season without having to protest.  That was my point, just because you found a glitch, doesnt mean that it had to be acted upon.  Too many parents are focused on the win and the trophy, regardless of how they are earned.  I think that it teaches a poor lesson to the kids to advance in that manner. Make them earn it from winning the game!  I dont have a dog in this fight, just a bystander hoping that parents let the kids play ball and let the coaches make decisions without being pursuaded into something they dont want to do.  Its the coach who has to live with that decision, not the parents!
[/quote]


How about teaching the kids to play by the rules. It could have just as easily not been an oversight. If this player has been on this team then he should have been on the roster.

[NEWS]

adding fuel to the fire that you guys started. dont get me wrong 9 out of 10 may be reaching a bit and i tip my cap to the young man who pitched in that game and to your team, simply put they beat us on the field and we were out played and honestly i believe you have a  good team and it would be competitive each and every time we played, but on that note, to go and put out there that the parents on the team would give him, the coach an ultimatum to forefit a game or we are leaving just because of a rules violation is just ludicrous.. he made a decision we simply stood behind that decision. it is what it is.. lets just get past this and move on.... PROUD PROSPECTS DAD 

[VP93....]

Rules are the rules and we all have to live by them,well some of us do anyways...The others, well  :o.... Oversight, maybe, but he has been on the team for 5 months..I wonder how your team would react if the tables were turned..Let me guess "your coach wouldn't say anything"...And to say "the coach should tell his boys that is not the way you earn it" is just stupid!! Guess they should also tell their players do whatever it takes to "WIN" even if you have to cheat, right...

Your coach has an obligations to his kids to play by the rules...ALL OF THEM....

Also just because he wasn't the "pitcher" doesn't mean they should have over looked it..

[knucklehead]

[quote name="VP 93......" post="1188725" timestamp="1330529879"]
Rules are the rules and we all have to live by them,well some of us do anyways...The others, well  :o.... Oversight, maybe, but he has been on the team for 5 months..I wonder how your team would react if the tables were turned..Let me guess "your coach wouldn't say anything"...And to say "the coach should tell his boys that is not the way you earn it" is just stupid!! Guess they should also tell their players do whatever it takes to "WIN" even if you have to cheat, right...

Your coach has an obligations to his kids to play by the rules...ALL OF THEM....

Also just because he wasn't the "pitcher" doesn't mean they should have over looked it..
[/quote]

Great arguments guys, I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, just a different of opinions. Couple of years back we were in a LL district championship game and the opposing coach was caught by the tournament director using an illegal pitcher.  He stopped the game, came over to us and told us that we have won under forfeit, if we wanted it.  We told him to remove the pitcher and continue the game that there would be no protest by us. We won and the kids earned it on the field. That was the right decision, in our opinion. With respect to this past weekend, two great organizations and two great coaching staffs, we apprecaite them both for helping our children. Dog4life, I have some extra 11 u trophies from last season that I am tryinig to get rid of, do you want them for your kitchen decor?  I can assure you they were earned on the field and not from the rulebook.

[Dog4Life]

11U trophys from last year?? Nah, Dont need em, not to fond of 2nd place trophys!! BUT I have a very good suggestion of where YOU can put em!!!  ;D ;D ;D 8)

Tony Babino

[quote name="knucklehead" post="1188755" timestamp="1330531662"]
[quote author=VP 93...... link=topic=96232.msg1188725#msg1188725 date=1330529879]
Rules are the rules and we all have to live by them,well some of us do anyways...The others, well  :o.... Oversight, maybe, but he has been on the team for 5 months..I wonder how your team would react if the tables were turned..Let me guess "your coach wouldn't say anything"...And to say "the coach should tell his boys that is not the way you earn it" is just stupid!! Guess they should also tell their players do whatever it takes to "WIN" even if you have to cheat, right...

Your coach has an obligations to his kids to play by the rules...ALL OF THEM....

Also just because he wasn't the "pitcher" doesn't mean they should have over looked it..
[/quote]

Great arguments guys, I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, just a different of opinions. Couple of years back we were in a LL district championship game and the opposing coach was caught by the tournament director using an illegal pitcher.  He stopped the game, came over to us and told us that we have won under forfeit, if we wanted it.  We told him to remove the pitcher and continue the game that there would be no protest by us. We won and the kids earned it on the field. That was the right decision, in our opinion. With respect to this past weekend, two great organizations and two great coaching staffs, we apprecaite them both for helping our children. Dog4life, I have some extra 11 u trophies from last season that I am tryinig to get rid of, do you want them for your kitchen decor?  I can assure you they were earned on the field and not from the rulebook.
[/quote]

[texcoug]

While rules need to be followed and kids need to be taught to adhere to rules, sport is littered with people doing everything they can to minimize the effect of rules or circumvent their way around them (Bill Bellicheck).  Anyway, the other issue here is the focus on a single game or tournament.  I notice it youth baseball in this area - I understand that coaches are under the gun to win (lots of parents demanding it), but the problem is the narrow focus on the result of a tournament.  People are up in arms here because someone used a player unregistered? too old?  whatever.  One of the disadvantages of select ball is the lack of oversight by any professional organization over the teams and coaches.  As a result, winning is elevated above all else (at all ages), no matter the cost to the kid.  I love competitive sports, but at youth ages the focus really should be on development.  How much of the pressure that we put on the kids is because we (the coaches) feel pressured?  That somehow the performance of the team, for good or bad, is a product of a coach and his pride is on the line.  We have all been there.  When the focus is on the coaches, it is away from the kids. 

Just my two cents.  I think the lack of any oversight (meaningful) in select ball has lead to an over-emphasis on short-term success at the potential cost of player development.  Just my two cents.  (I anticipate there would be fewer disputes on this board if it wasn't so personnel to the parents and coaches.)

[NEWS]

love it tony lmao!!  8) couldnt have said it better. knucklehead just wont let sleeping dogs ly thanks for having our back we appreciate you bro....

[knucklehead]

[quote name="NEWS" post="1188874" timestamp="1330538003"]
love it tony lmao!!  8) couldnt have said it better. knucklehead just wont let sleeping dogs ly thanks for having our back we appreciate you bro....
[/quote] :D

[hollispaul]

1 team lost on the field.
1 team lost on a technicality.
Maybe neither team should have been allowed to advance. There's always a third option. ;D

If this were adults on the field playing, then that would deserve some serious thought, but because it was not, playing the championship game was, of course, the right thing to do. Which team should have advanced is up for debate, well, was anyway. ::) Depends on which side you were on I guess and what lessons you want to teach and to whom.

The final game was as fun a game to watch as I had seen in quite awhile, both teams came to play, both came to win, and that is what competition is all about. After 12 hours at the park, all 20+ boys left it on the field, can't ask much more than that. Even though our boys came up short in the end, every win/loss presents a lesson, and for us it was the ol' tried n true "you can't win em all" BUT if you play your tail off and come up short then you can walk away with your head held high. In the end it sure was nice to be at home at Ford Park playing late into the night on a sunday!

My name is Hollis Frost and my son, Cole, plays SS for the Hooks. ;)

[BBGod]

1

[getripped]

[quote name="BBGod" post="1191203" timestamp="1330749409"]
Wow! That's all I can say. You guys are stating facts about a situation that you know nothing about. One teams is a cheater one took the higher road? I was there and I guess everyone has opinions and I will keep mine to myself for now. One thing for sure is that there was a lesson to be learned and I hope someone learned it! Probably not.
[/quote]okay, since you have all of the facts, why dont you share them with us so that everyone can now internalize their own opinion regarding this matter.

[rounder17]

Can someone post the time limits in each class, for usssa games?

[dogpile]

[size=12pt]Well there goes an hour of my life I will never get back!  - wasting on reading  this post that went NOWHERE !!!  Sounds like UAAA and Nations are in the real world and its called "Competition"!  Hoping stupid people like me will get on here  and decide "Team UAAA" or Team Nations".  Sorry guy Im "Team Playball and  Play Fair"! (I think i will sell T-Shirts "Team Playball") haha..... now on with my life....and get on with yours! This is the dumbest thread yet!!!! --

[size=12pt][/size]-FYI Rain happens!!![/size] ;D[/size]

[tc hawk]

[quote name="dogpile" post="1205478" timestamp="1333418358"]
[size=12pt]Well there goes an hour of my life I will never get back!  - wasting on reading  this post that went NOWHERE !!!  Sounds like UAAA and Nations are in the real world and its called "Competition"!  Hoping stupid people like me will get on here  and decide "Team UAAA" or Team Nations".  Sorry guy Im "Team Playball and  Play Fair"! (I think i will sell T-Shirts "Team Playball") haha..... now on with my life....and get on with yours! This is the dumbest thread yet!!!! --

[size=12pt][/size]-FYI Rain happens!!![/size] ;D[/size]
[/quote]

From what I hear, USSSA (Local) don't care where you play. They have never said play USSSA only, yes I know Nations (local) has never said play Nations only, what they have said is, if you do play USSSA DON'T PLAY IT AT FORD PARK.  So who's trying to make who decide?