Does Classes that Specialize in One Sport really Help a 3A school?

[Riding Solo]

My answer is "NO" and why you ask. Well, they cannot practice as a team until the UIL permits. Yes, they can build conditioning and upper body strenght but a team is all about chemistry. Yes, the 4A and 5A teams have enough kids to go around but not the small 3A teams and down. If kids start specializing in sports at the 3A level then the program is doomed as a whole.  Sorry but classes or not it will not make a difference for Orangefield. Most kids get better by playing select or AAU. Now I do agree they should be able to practice the sport in season during their athletic period. But not one class for baketball players, one for baseball players and so on. If you create a class for those then why not every single sport. That is not realistic.

[Dirty D]

NO

[T-daddy]

Yes, a baseball class is very benificial in 3a..look at the successful programs and I bet they all have a baseball class period..

[catfever]

This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.

[footballin]

IMO most of the individual skills are learned at a young age. When they get into HS they are (for the most part) expected to already know how to dribble, shoot, swing, throw properly. To polish off those type of skills it takes a driven individual to practice outside of the normal practice times, putting in that extra effort on the weekends. Ask any successful player at any sport and I bet they tell you that the extra effort put in outside of practice is what set them apart from the rest of the athletes. It's when you get a group of kids that all are willing to put in that extra effort is when you get the best results. Ex. the 2010 Orangefield Baseball team when they made a run at the playoffs. Most of those kids had been playing together since they were just little guys in t-ball. And you can bet that even before the official practices started they were out there putting in work without the coaches, getting their arms in shape, getting their swing mechanics back in order, etc, so that when the season came around they were ready to roll. My point being that it is not sufficient to rely on what is done during practice or an athletics period to make a team successful. If you disagree with that I would be happy for you to give me an example of a team that was successful putting in ONLY the necessary work.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="footballin" post="1209193" timestamp="1334161656"]
IMO most of the individual skills are learned at a young age. When they get into HS they are (for the most part) expected to already know how to dribble, shoot, swing, throw properly. To polish off those type of skills it takes a driven individual to practice outside of the normal practice times, putting in that extra effort on the weekends. Ask any successful player at any sport and I bet they tell you that the extra effort put in outside of practice is what set them apart from the rest of the athletes. It's when you get a group of kids that all are willing to put in that extra effort is when you get the best results. Ex. the 2010 Orangefield Baseball team when they made a run at the playoffs. Most of those kids had been playing together since they were just little guys in t-ball. And you can bet that even before the official practices started they were out there putting in work without the coaches, getting their arms in shape, getting their swing mechanics back in order, etc, so that when the season came around they were ready to roll. My point being that it is not sufficient to rely on what is done during practice or an athletics period to make a team successful. If you disagree with that I would be happy for you to give me an example of a team that was successful putting in ONLY the necessary work.
[/quote] Excellent points!

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="footballin" post="1209193" timestamp="1334161656"]
IMO most of the individual skills are learned at a young age. When they get into HS they are (for the most part) expected to already know how to dribble, shoot, swing, throw properly. To polish off those type of skills it takes a driven individual to practice outside of the normal practice times, putting in that extra effort on the weekends. Ask any successful player at any sport and I bet they tell you that the extra effort put in outside of practice is what set them apart from the rest of the athletes. It's when you get a group of kids that all are willing to put in that extra effort is when you get the best results. Ex. the 2010 Orangefield Baseball team when they made a run at the playoffs. Most of those kids had been playing together since they were just little guys in t-ball. And you can bet that even before the official practices started they were out there putting in work without the coaches, getting their arms in shape, getting their swing mechanics back in order, etc, so that when the season came around they were ready to roll. My point being that it is not sufficient to rely on what is done during practice or an athletics period to make a team successful. If you disagree with that I would be happy for you to give me an example of a team that was successful putting in ONLY the necessary work.
[/quote]

Good post and you are right on.

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="catfever" post="1209174" timestamp="1334159096"]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

The UIL does not allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. So if they work on batting, throwing, catching, dribbling and shooting before that date it is against the rules plain and simple. What they do on their spare time is their business. I agree some are not football players but why should the football players not have the adaquate time to prepare just like the kids who only play basketball. It that fair for the football players just because they chose to play football? Its a double egde sword. You have to think about every kid in every sport not just the one your kid is playing in.

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="catfever" post="1209174" timestamp="1334159096"]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

Football is the issue here, so this thread is in the right place. Just like you said, it would benefit the ones that do "SPECIALIZE".  The bigger picture is "ALL" the kids. How do "ALL" the kids benefit? It's about the program as a whole. By the way if a kid wants to get better it is not done by the coaches at the High school or college level, it is done by the individual kid who puts in the extra work to get better on their own. Kids are responsible for their own actions.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="1209460" timestamp="1334188078"]
[quote author=catfever link=topic=98828.msg1209174#msg1209174 date=1334159096]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

Football is the issue here, so this thread is in the right place. Just like you said, it would benefit the ones that do "SPECIALIZE".  The bigger picture is "ALL" the kids. How do "ALL" the kids benefit? It's about the program as a whole. By the way if a kid wants to get better it is not done by the coaches at the High school or college level, it is done by the individual kid who puts in the extra work to get better on their own. Kids are responsible for their own actions.
[/quote]Good points!

[Riding Solo]

Karma for you Dove. ;D

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="T-daddy" post="1209160" timestamp="1334157935"]
Yes, a baseball class is very benificial in 3a..look at the successful programs and I bet they all have a baseball class period..
[/quote]

The most successful is Bridge City and a lot of those kids play football. Bridge City is good because of their youth program plain and simple. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!

[catfever]

Bridge City has a baseball and basketball.  WOS has baseball and basketball.  Silsbee has basketball and baseball.  HJ has basketball and baseball.  Who knows what the new AD at HF will have, but with a certain board member on the nomination committee and his kid play bball, they will probably be able to do thier sport.  So OF will be the only one in 21-3A that doesn't. 

All of you are correct.  Kids should learn the basics of all sports in the youth ages, but the sad part is there are more and more that are not being taught, and without those individual skills, the team will suffer.  Dove wasn't Universal offseason one of the things that you griped about when your boys were at HF.  Do they practice skills at Ozen now.  Also, there is 50 minutes allocated during school that they can practice as a team.  It is after school that they cannot do this until their season starts.  The coach can design any workout during this 50 minute period all school year.

Also, I never said kids couldn't practice football during this time.  That should be completely up to the Head football coach if he so chooses.

[hitman009]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="1209444" timestamp="1334185910"]
[quote author=catfever link=topic=98828.msg1209174#msg1209174 date=1334159096]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

The UIL does not allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. So if they work on batting, throwing, catching, dribbling and shooting before that date it is against the rules plain and simple. What they do on their spare time is their business. I agree some are not football players but why should the football players not have the adaquate time to prepare just like the kids who only play basketball. It that fair for the football players just because they chose to play football? Its a double egde sword. You have to think about every kid in every sport not just the one your kid is playing in.
[/quote]HMMM YES UIL does allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. Its called fall ball. Now the head baseball coach of the school can not coach them there but he can appoint the right person to run the team. He can teach him/her how to run practice and what to look for.. so they can practice as a team.  Also during the athletic period they are allowed to throw, catch, hit.....with the coach there. and yes football players are allowed to practice before the season starts.... its called 7 on 7 during the summer.. or Spring Football with pads.
As for should 3A teams have separate specific sport periods...YES... Its not fair that a kid can not get practice during the period just because they do not play football.  But It has to be done right and the RIGHT COACHES need to be hired.  A coach should not persuade a kid to stick to one sport.

[team first]

Knowing the facts always helps catman...I like equal opprotunity idea. It's the American Way!

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="hitman009" post="1209535" timestamp="1334197106"]
[quote author=Riding Solo link=topic=98828.msg1209444#msg1209444 date=1334185910]
[quote author=catfever link=topic=98828.msg1209174#msg1209174 date=1334159096]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

The UIL does not allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. So if they work on batting, throwing, catching, dribbling and shooting before that date it is against the rules plain and simple. What they do on their spare time is their business. I agree some are not football players but why should the football players not have the adaquate time to prepare just like the kids who only play basketball. It that fair for the football players just because they chose to play football? Its a double egde sword. You have to think about every kid in every sport not just the one your kid is playing in.
[/quote]HMMM YES UIL does allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. Its called fall ball. Now the head baseball coach of the school can not coach them there but he can appoint the right person to run the team. He can teach him/her how to run practice and what to look for.. so they can practice as a team.  Also during the athletic period they are allowed to throw, catch, hit.....with the coach there. and yes football players are allowed to practice before the season starts.... its called 7 on 7 during the summer.. or Spring Football with pads.
As for should 3A teams have separate specific sport periods...YES... Its not fair that a kid can not get practice during the period just because they do not play football.  But It has to be done right and the RIGHT COACHES need to be hired.  [color=red]A coach should not persuade a kid to stick to one sport.[/color][/quote]

Like Griff does at LCM right, Never heard of fall ball before at the high school level except for select teams.  I agree, they should be able to practice the sport in season during their athletic period, but again if you are going to have a class for baketball and baseball why not have a class for every single sport. Not very realistic.  Apparently basketball and baseball are the only sports you care about. Jacob Felts and Jace Statum did not get better from playing High school ball. They got better from putting in the work before the season on their own.

[belle-mere]

Most 3A schools don't have enough coaches/teaching units to allow multiple athletic periods, especially after budget cuts this year, and many don't have the facilities to split up into multiple sports during one period. It's a mute question at many 3A schools.

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="belle-mere" post="1209555" timestamp="1334200325"]
Most 3A schools don't have enough coaches/teaching units to allow multiple athletic periods, especially after budget cuts this year, and many don't have the facilities to split up into multiple sports during one period. It's a mute question at many 3A schools.
[/quote]

You are right on. Funny how people don't see that.

[T-daddy]

A lot of football players play baseball (fallball) during football season. 

[catfever]

I refer back to my previous post.  All the other 3A schools in 21-3A have a class or are allowed to practice their sport during the athletic period.  This would include baseball, basketball, and football.  During any part of the year, they may use the 50 minute period allotted everyday to practice however they like (team, individual, weights, conditioning, etc.).  They may not practice after the school day except during their season as set by the UIL. 

[jenks]

If your an athlete it does not matter how many sports or if you go to a class for it. Malveaux at HF got a football Scholarship to UofH and also led HF to the playoff's in Basketball and he is fixin to go to state for the highjump in track. I know he did not go to a class for all these sports. Per the Beaumont Enterprise he just started highjumping 2 weeks ago.

[SKINS]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="1209549" timestamp="1334199221"]
[quote author=hitman009 link=topic=98828.msg1209535#msg1209535 date=1334197106]
[quote author=Riding Solo link=topic=98828.msg1209444#msg1209444 date=1334185910]
[quote author=catfever link=topic=98828.msg1209174#msg1209174 date=1334159096]
This topic would probably get a more accurate response on the baseball and basketball forums.  IMO, yes it does help.  They can get better at individual skills that are a must in order for a TEAM to be successful.  They still need to work on throwing, batting, and catching in baseball and dribbling and shooting in basketball.  I agree that kids don't need to specialize at the 3A level, but lets face it, some kids aren't football players, just like some are not baseball or basketball players.  Why should the kids who just aren't football players, not be able to get better at the sport they like to play.  If done properly, this would not encourage kids to specialize, it would just benefit the ones who do.
[/quote]

The UIL does not allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. So if they work on batting, throwing, catching, dribbling and shooting before that date it is against the rules plain and simple. What they do on their spare time is their business. I agree some are not football players but why should the football players not have the adaquate time to prepare just like the kids who only play basketball. It that fair for the football players just because they chose to play football? Its a double egde sword. You have to think about every kid in every sport not just the one your kid is playing in.
[/quote]HMMM YES UIL does allow a team to start practicing before the mandated date. Its called fall ball. Now the head baseball coach of the school can not coach them there but he can appoint the right person to run the team. He can teach him/her how to run practice and what to look for.. so they can practice as a team.  Also during the athletic period they are allowed to throw, catch, hit.....with the coach there. and yes football players are allowed to practice before the season starts.... its called 7 on 7 during the summer.. or Spring Football with pads.
As for should 3A teams have separate specific sport periods...YES... Its not fair that a kid can not get practice during the period just because they do not play football.  But It has to be done right and the RIGHT COACHES need to be hired.  [color=red]A coach should not persuade a kid to stick to one sport.[/color][/quote]

Like Griff does at LCM right, Never heard of fall ball before at the high school level except for select teams. OK, you become the AD and lets see how far you last. You know the right way, I guess the coaches before you did not. Let me guess you have a degree and is ready for the coaching profession. Lets see I think I will contact the UIL and see if you are right. If I am wrong I will admit it.  If I am right the UIL will know about it.
[/quote]
I played 3 sports in highschool, the only issue I ever had was a baseball coach who gave me all sorts of hell for playing soccer and couldn't participate in his special baseball class.

[footballin]

Whats wrong with core weights and speed/agility exercises+conditioning during the period? Can you not use that for every sport OF has to offer?

[AggiesAreWe]

It's against UIL rules to practice a sport out of season before or after school hours. You can practice a sport in the off season during school hours in the allowed 50 minute period.

So, if your school has a class for basketball and baseball, they are allowed to practice that sport in the off season in the 50 minute period during school.

[Riding Solo]

I just talked to  UIL director and yes you can practice a sport out of season duing the school year in the athletic period. I was wrong but I still feel the sameway about classes for individual sports. 50 minutes is not a lot of time to actually get in much work.  Most of the work is done after school. HJ is good not because they have a basketball class but because of their little dribbler program. I don't see the baseball class helping their baseball program. Silsbee they just have more athletes plain and simple. Don't see a basketball class helping Bridge City either. Here are the facts, unless Orangefield really grows at a rapid pace we will always be in the rear view mirrow of WOS, Silsbee and HJ in basketball, also WOS, Silsbee and BC in football. It will be hit and miss for us as long as we stay in this district. We simply do not have the number of athletes some of these bigger schools have. Orangefield needs to have their athlete's playing multiple sports in order to compete. If kids start specializing the program as a "WHOLE" is doomed. That is what we are talking about RIGHT, the "WHOLE" program.