Who recruits more players? Nederland, HJ, or Yates?

[stevenash]

Created this one for the sake of staying on topic as requested.  Fire away Dickie and tell us why Nederland and HJ are equivalent to Yates in terms of move-ins, recruits, or whatever label you want to assign to it.

[Dick Vitale]

If they were being recruited, why aren't any actions being taken? I mean you HJ guys have a direct line to the UIL office....Turn em in!! Know why you cannot? Because HEARSAY is not acceptable when it comes to matters of law and the UIL!! I know for a FACT HJ has a kid from Beaumont ISD...legal? Maybe....maybe not, but he is there..Just like kids may go to Yates...Doesn't mean they are being recruited....They used to say we recruited Kendrick Perkins too...when he lived ACROSS THE STREET FROM OZEN...So I know how people can just say ANYTHING when it comes to programs that win.

[stevenash]

Shai Fields previously played at Pearland
Maurice Letcher-Ellis previously played at Cy Springs, (UIL ruled in his Case)
Damyeon-Dotson previously played at Madison,
Charles Bennett previously played at Milby


Dickie- Lets go ahead and discuss this "pipeline" from Beaumont to Sour Lake that you continually refer to but never follow up on.  Show me how all of your connections and knowledge make your allegation a fact.  From my viewpoint, 1 player in 5 years does not constitute a pipeline but, of course, I don't "know" things like you do.  As previously stated, bring something a little more credible than the weak "Liberty" accusation.  You will also need a little larger volume of players in order to make it to the "Yates league".

[Dick Vitale]

Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227569" timestamp="1338484071"]
Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!
[/quote]

Yep- 1 kid in five years is very comparable to multiple kids year in and year out.  Gotta hand it to you- very compelling logic and certainly representative of a "pipeline"

[Honest Abe]

Have fun with this one Nash, I'm going to go bang my head against a wall for four hours. I'm sure I'll get a lot more out of it...  8)

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1227570" timestamp="1338484165"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227569#msg1227569 date=1338484071]
Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!
[/quote]

Yep- 1 kid in five years is very comparable to multiple kids year in and year out.  Gotta hand it to you- very compelling logic and certainly representative of a "pipeline"
[/quote]
One in five years? OK, I will let that go...Why do you think that Yates is just that slick to be able to just break rules and have no consequences?

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227576" timestamp="1338484714"]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1227570#msg1227570 date=1338484165]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227569#msg1227569 date=1338484071]
Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!
[/quote]

Yep- 1 kid in five years is very comparable to multiple kids year in and year out.  Gotta hand it to you- very compelling logic and certainly representative of a "pipeline"
[/quote]
One in five years? OK, I will let that go...Why do you think that Yates is just that slick to be able to just break rules and have no consequences?
[/quote]

Why did the four players listed above all choose Yates out of all the schools available in the Houston area?

[Dick Vitale]

Maybe scenery and academics.... ::) ::)..Isn't that the attraction for Hardin Jefferson?

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227583" timestamp="1338485363"]
Maybe scenery and academics.... ::) ::)..Isn't that the attraction for Hardin Jefferson?
[/quote]

Good answer.  Once again, very logical.  Here is another way to look at it.  Why dont we simply take the number of players on both teams varsity and multiply it by 5 ( total players on varsity over 5 years) and see what percentage consitutes "move ins"?  Hj's is going to be around 1%.  Are you claiming the same for Yates?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1227586" timestamp="1338485696"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227583#msg1227583 date=1338485363]
Maybe scenery and academics.... ::) ::)..Isn't that the attraction for Hardin Jefferson?
[/quote]

Good answer.  Once again, very logical.  Here is another way to look at it.  Why dont we simply take the number of players on both teams varsity and multiply it by 5 ( total players on varsity over 5 years) and see what percentage consitutes "move ins"?  Hj's is going to be around 1%.  Are you claiming the same for Yates?
[/quote]
Again...can't compare by those numbers....Houston has 100 times more kids than does the Sour Lake, China, Cheeks, (and Beaumont) areas combined...It SHOULD be more...

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227587" timestamp="1338485803"]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1227586#msg1227586 date=1338485696]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227583#msg1227583 date=1338485363]
Maybe scenery and academics.... ::) ::)..Isn't that the attraction for Hardin Jefferson?
[/quote]

Good answer.  Once again, very logical.  Here is another way to look at it.  Why dont we simply take the number of players on both teams varsity and multiply it by 5 ( total players on varsity over 5 years) and see what percentage consitutes "move ins"?  Hj's is going to be around 1%.  Are you claiming the same for Yates?
[/quote]
Again...can't compare by those numbers....Houston has 100 times more kids than does the Sour Lake, China, Cheeks, (and Beaumont) areas combined...It SHOULD be more...
[/quote]

Really?- You are the one who touted how "home grown" the Yates team was.  By the way, percentages usually are the great equalizer when there are huge disparities in absolutes.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1227591" timestamp="1338486125"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227587#msg1227587 date=1338485803]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1227586#msg1227586 date=1338485696]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227583#msg1227583 date=1338485363]
Maybe scenery and academics.... ::) ::)..Isn't that the attraction for Hardin Jefferson?
[/quote]

Good answer.  Once again, very logical.  Here is another way to look at it.  Why dont we simply take the number of players on both teams varsity and multiply it by 5 ( total players on varsity over 5 years) and see what percentage consitutes "move ins"?  Hj's is going to be around 1%.  Are you claiming the same for Yates?
[/quote]
Again...can't compare by those numbers....Houston has 100 times more kids than does the Sour Lake, China, Cheeks, (and Beaumont) areas combined...It SHOULD be more...
[/quote]

Really?- You are the one who touted how "home grown" the Yates team was.  By the way, percentages usually are the great equalizer when there are huge disparities in absolutes.
[/quote]
I was saying that they were just as "homegrown" as the HJ kids are....and they ARE!

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227569" timestamp="1338484071"]
Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!
[/quote]


At least 4 times larger than Sour Lake??

How about at least 400 times larger. I mean, Silsbee is almost twice the size of Sour Lake. Houston would be closer to 4,000 times larger than Sour Lake, not 4 times larger.

The fact is that there is a higher percentage of kids that play basketball for Yates that come from other schools, more so than what Hardin-Jefferson has playing basketball. Now whether those kids were recruited illegally is what should be up for debate. But, Yates has not broken any rules, or at least hasn't yet been caught. ;) ;D

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1227602" timestamp="1338487408"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1227569#msg1227569 date=1338484071]
Devante Johnson - previously played at Beaumont Central
::)
Ratio 4:1
Houston is at least 4 times larger than Sour Lake
I would call that one about EVEN!
[/quote]


At least 4 times larger than Sour Lake??

How about at least 400 times larger. I mean, Silsbee is almost twice the size of Sour Lake. Houston would be closer to 4,000 times larger than Sour Lake, not 4 times larger.

The fact is that there is a higher percentage of kids that play basketball for Yates that come from other schools, more so than what Hardin-Jefferson has playing basketball. Now whether those kids were recruited illegally is what should be up for debate. But, Yates has not broken any rules, or at least hasn't yet been caught. ;) ;D
[/quote]
Thats my point AAW...I know that Houston has well over 40 times the kids that Sour Lake does, but THAT was my point...its at LEAST 4 times... ;)

[westend1]

If they have so many move-ins, why are they dropping to 3A?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="westend1" post="1227614" timestamp="1338488444"]
If they have so many move-ins, why are they dropping to 3A?
[/quote]
They actually should NOT be...Thats a great point! It will be a two year experiment...Thats all.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227618" timestamp="1338488616"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=100318.msg1227614#msg1227614 date=1338488444]
If they have so many move-ins, why are they dropping to 3A?
[/quote]
They actually should NOT be...Thats a great point! It will be a two year experiment...Thats all.
[/quote]

Which part is the "great point"?  Having so many move ins?  Or moving to 3-a?

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1227618" timestamp="1338488616"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=100318.msg1227614#msg1227614 date=1338488444]
If they have so many move-ins, why are they dropping to 3A?
[/quote]
They actually should NOT be...Thats a great point! It will be a two year experiment...Thats all.
[/quote]

If it is pronounced as "should NOT be" by you - then why is it?

[westend1]

Clearly, they are having more move-outs than move-ins.  Except for basketball players.  Coincidence?

[stevenash]

[quote name="westend1" post="1227632" timestamp="1338490215"]
Clearly, they are having more move-outs than move-ins.  Except for basketball players.  Coincidence?
[/quote]

Westend- Although we are often diametrically opposed on the political front, permit me to congratulate you on a brilliant conclusion.

Kind of reminds me of a song entitled " Things That Make You Go Hmmm"

[westend1]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1227635" timestamp="1338491190"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=100318.msg1227632#msg1227632 date=1338490215]
Clearly, they are having more move-outs than move-ins.  Except for basketball players.  Coincidence?
[/quote]

Westend- Although we are often diametrically opposed on the political front, permit me to congratulate you on a brilliant conclusion.

Kind of reminds me of a song entitled " Things That Make You Go Hmmm"
[/quote]
:o ;D

[mytwocents-28]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1227635" timestamp="1338491190"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=100318.msg1227632#msg1227632 date=1338490215]
Clearly, they are having more move-outs than move-ins.  Except for basketball players.  Coincidence?
[/quote]

Westend- Although we are often diametrically opposed on the political front, permit me to congratulate you on a brilliant conclusion.

Kind of reminds me of a song entitled [b]" Things That Make You Go Hmmm"[/b]
[/quote]
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BLUEDOVE3]

Yates is on a whole nother level folks. They play a national schedule alongside with national exposure. Build and they shall follow. Also, these so-called elite kids  ::) hang, text, Face Book, etc each other. They ask their pardners to follow them to certain programs. Others want to play in the best programs. Wise's program sells itself. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1227726" timestamp="1338509197"]
Yates is on a whole nother level folks. They play a national schedule alongside with national exposure. Build and they shall follow. Also, these so-called elite kids  ::) hang, text, Face Book, etc each other. They ask their pardners to follow them to certain programs. Others want to play in the best programs. Wise's program sells itself.
[/quote]

Many thanks for acknowledging/verifying that this program is, as you say, an elite program which suggests that all high school coaches, in order to compete, ought to be AAU coaches in the off season and develop relationships with players who, at that time, do not attend the school where they are coaching.  OF course, Mr. Wise NEVER discusses attending Yates as a possibility.  He merely lets his current players sell the program on Facebook.  I never realized that, at the high school level, that this was supposed to take place.  Somebody once told me that the competition was intended to take place between schools of similar size with no outside influence.  If enough other schools pick up on these "methods" Texas High School Basketball ought to become very interesting.  I am amazed at some people who belittle "the rich" and how they take unfair advantage of everyone else and yet, at the same time, admire situations such as this one.