TROJANSWIN Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Since we have some of the best minds in High School Football on this board, maybe ya'll can enlighten me.If you stand no chance against an opponent. You know going in that you are going to get spanked. You start the game by letting the other team take the kickoff, and in 2 plays they have scored.Why not throw in some trick plays? Throw the ball deep down the field and pray? On-side kick on the opening kick-off? Fake a punt? Try something different?I don't understand why most coaches continue to try to run their regular offense and keep going 3 and out. Our district seems stuck in this rut of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to change.
football04 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 I agree, throw the house at them, to me a loss is a loss whether by alot or a little, swing for the fences.
MrUmp1 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 And now you know why some teams and or coaches live in mediocrity.
TeamJagUS Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Same philosophy that makes MS teams punt after 3 instead of just playing 4 downs. Teaching the fundamentals? Bull, if you can't get a first down then concentrate on THAT fundamental. If you punt 8 times in a game that's 8 more plays from scrimmage to "practice", maybe some of those plays you talked about, hey how about some PASSING? All a reasonably intelligent person has to do is sit down and analyze that as you said the opponent is going to score in 2 or 3 plays ANYWAY or at least get back to where you punted from, or realize that after 2 games your punting game has netted negative yards with returns, blocked punts or bad snaps. A good punting game is useless unless you're in the game to start with.MrUmp got it right and the answer to your question of "why" is dumbness and/or lazyness, there's no nice way to say it. It would be nice to see more competition in our district, frankly it does "the 3" little to no good to play "the other 3" to prepare for playoffs (here come the Panthers to claim they should be in the first group ;D well maybe so). It's embarrassing. (And boring to watch)
NewtonNation Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="TROJANSWIN" post="1287596" timestamp="1349059036"]Since we have some of the s,best minds in High School Football on this board, maybe ya'll can enlighten me.If you stand no chance against an opponent. You know going in that you are going to get spanked. You start the game by letting the other team take the kickoff, and in 2 plays they have scored.Why not throw in some trick plays? Throw the ball deep down the field and pray? On-side kick on the opening kick-off? Fake a punt? Try something different?I don't understand why most coaches continue to try to run their regular offense and keep going 3 and out. Our district seems stuck in this rut of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to change.[/quote]I agree with you TROJANSWIN try something, anything. Warren was a good example. Newton came into the game picked to win by everyone but Warren never gave up, going for it on almost every 4th down. I think they punted just a couple of times in the 51-0 loss.
coach pops Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 I read about a coach in a northeast state winning state championships that never punts and kicks onside every kickoff. His reasoning was that the opposing team would score after a punt or conventional kickoff a high percentage of the time anyway and he usually had a 50% chance of converting on fourth down and his team recovering the onside kick 50% of the time. I thought he was nuts until he started quoting percentages and his logic. If you think about it he has a strong argument. Under the circumstances cited in this thread why not try the unconventional. That would at least give opposing coaches something to think about.
TeamJagUS Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="coach pops" post="1288127" timestamp="1349120465"]I read about a coach in a northeast state winning state championships that never punts and kicks onside every kickoff. His reasoning was that the opposing team would score after a punt or conventional kickoff a high percentage of the time anyway and he usually had a 50% chance of converting on fourth down and his team recovering the onside kick 50% of the time. I thought he was nuts until he started quoting percentages and his logic. If you think about it he has a strong argument. Under the circumstances cited in this thread why not try the unconventional. That would at least give opposing coaches something to think about.[/quote]Smart coach, was it a print article or do you have an online link to read?
coach pops Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Trying to remember the particulars. It's been a couple years ago but pretty sure it was the Carolinas or Virginias states. My Dad showed me the article. I'll see if he remembers and post a link if found.
CAL2TEX Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="TeamJag-US" post="1288134" timestamp="1349120828"][quote author=coach pops link=topic=103972.msg1288127#msg1288127 date=1349120465]I read about a coach in a northeast state winning state championships that never punts and kicks onside every kickoff. His reasoning was that the opposing team would score after a punt or conventional kickoff a high percentage of the time anyway and he usually had a 50% chance of converting on fourth down and his team recovering the onside kick 50% of the time. I thought he was nuts until he started quoting percentages and his logic. If you think about it he has a strong argument. Under the circumstances cited in this thread why not try the unconventional. That would at least give opposing coaches something to think about.[/quote]Smart coach, was it a print article or do you have an online link to read?[/quote]http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=892888
coach pops Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Thats the article. I was in the wrong state. :) Good job on finding it.
TeamJagUS Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="coach pops" post="1288177" timestamp="1349122372"]Thats the article. I was in the wrong state. :) Good job on finding it.[/quote]I was gonna say shame the yanks thought of it, glad to know it was a southern boy (I'm sure I'm offending somebody right now, all in good fun). May be worse that he's from Ark anyway ;) lets hear it from all you RazorBacks!! Thanks for the info.
CAL2TEX Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="coach pops" post="1288177" timestamp="1349122372"]Thats the article. I was in the wrong state. :) Good job on finding it.[/quote]No prob, Coach! ;)
Mr. Buddy Garrity Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="TeamJag-US" post="1288201" timestamp="1349123401"][quote author=coach pops link=topic=103972.msg1288177#msg1288177 date=1349122372]Thats the article. I was in the wrong state. :) Good job on finding it.[/quote]I was gonna say shame the yanks thought of it, glad to know it was a southern boy (I'm sure I'm offending somebody right now, all in good fun). May be worse that he's from Ark anyway ;) lets hear it from all you RazorBacks!! Thanks for the info.[/quote] >:(
BADSANTA Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 I remember watching Sulpher Springs vs Dayton a few years back the Sulphers Springs coach would pooch kick every single kickoff about 15 yards down field. Think they recover a few of them.
coach pops Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Innovation will win lots of games. I believe the spread offense came from maybe Ennis? The team was trailing by multiple scores so their coach went to his quick strike 2 minute style offense and scored quickly. Defense held and he did it again. Scored again. Won the game that way and started the next game in the spread. The rest is history in high school ball. U of H had lots of success and national recognition with the run and shoot version prior to. As did the Houston Oilers with the same coach. Wish I could remember his name. We used it with middle school kids over twenty years ago to break the monotony at practice and a good deal of the time in games. I just didn't have sense enough to do it all the time. Now it's the norm cause it's so hard to defend. All ages can use that offense in many variations. It's all about the execution.
Txdragon Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name="coach pops" post="1288309" timestamp="1349132947"]Innovation will win lots of games. I believe the spread offense came from maybe Ennis? The team was trailing by multiple scores so their coach went to his quick strike 2 minute style offense and scored quickly. Defense held and he did it again. Scored again. Won the game that way and started the next game in the spread. The rest is history in high school ball. U of H had lots of success and national recognition with the run and shoot version prior to. As did the Houston Oilers with the same coach. Wish I could remember his name. We used it with middle school kids over twenty years ago to break the monotony at practice and a good deal of the time in games. I just didn't have sense enough to do it all the time. Now it's the norm cause it's so hard to defend. All ages can use that offense in many variations. It's all about the execution.[/quote]Jack Pardee..old Redskins linebacker implemented run and shoot started by Mouse Davis in college and with Houston Gamblers. Kevin Gilbride and June Jones (SMU) also have run the offense.Hope I didn't leave anyone out.
coach pops Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks. That's right. Brings back lots of memories. I believe Andre Ware won the Heisman at UH under Pardee and that offense.
AHUDDLESTON Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 I read a book from the 60's that was named "The Run and Shoot". Had a lot of the spread formations and throwing crossing routes along with the inside runs. I am not sure about the exact title, but my stepdad had the book from his early coaching days.
coach pops Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Ima try to find that book. I guess football is kinda like clothing fashion. Keep it around long enough it will come back into style. :D
Hupernikomen Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 I remember a basketball coach allowing his players to run with Kountze once. "Coach we can do it." After the 70 point blowout they let him do his job. It was back to the usual 30-40 point whooping next time around. There are reasons some teams don't beat other teams but maybe once every 15-20 years and it has very little to do with coaching. I guarantee you that if Coldspring and Shepherd had swapped coaches at the beginning of this season the outcome still would have been a blowout.
bh89-2 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name="coach pops" post="1288158" timestamp="1349121875"]Trying to remember the particulars. It's been a couple years ago but pretty sure it was the Carolinas or Virginias states. My Dad showed me the article. I'll see if he remembers and post a link if found.[/quote]I have a plant in Roanoke, VA and I recall the workers telling me their coach does that. Not sure if it's the same team, but they have numerous state championship signs at the town entrance. I am going to try and catch a game this year and see what it's all about.
liltex Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Smokin admiting he has a plant in Virginia ;D ;D
coach pops Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 It seems like somewhere in that part of the world is the all time winningest HS coach. He has like over 600 wins, was in his eighties and still coaching last I heard. If you won 10 games a year on average it would take sixty years to accomplish. Amazing.
coach pops Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name="liltex" post="1288461" timestamp="1349143293"]Smokin admiting he has a plant in Virginia ;D ;D[/quote] ;D
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