Where' s Port Arthur Memorial fans ?

[understand]

Looks like 5a is a little different from beating on 4a area teams, maybe if you would have played  a 5a pre-season you would have done better in the playoffs.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="understand" post="1336167" timestamp="1353259598"]
Looks like 5a is a little different from beating on 4a area teams, maybe if you would have played  a 5a pre-season you would have done better in the playoffs.
[/quote]did you look at the schedule before you posted genius?  ;) ::)

[ram0524]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336171" timestamp="1353259714"]
[quote author=understand link=topic=106477.msg1336167#msg1336167 date=1353259598]
Looks like 5a is a little different from beating on 4a area teams, maybe if you would have played  a 5a pre-season you would have done better in the playoffs.
[/quote]did you look at the schedule before you posted genius?  ;) ::)
[/quote]
Ozen and Central, oh yeah tuff teams(sarcasm). Westside and Bellaire might be even worse then Ozen and Central. Where is the difficulty in that Preseason schedule?

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="ram0524" post="1336177" timestamp="1353259867"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336171#msg1336171 date=1353259714]
[quote author=understand link=topic=106477.msg1336167#msg1336167 date=1353259598]
Looks like 5a is a little different from beating on 4a area teams, maybe if you would have played  a 5a pre-season you would have done better in the playoffs.
[/quote]did you look at the schedule before you posted genius?  ;) ::)
[/quote]
Ozen and Central, oh yeah tuff teams(sarcasm). Westside and Bellaire might be even worse then Ozen and Central. Where is the difficulty in that Preseason schedule?
[/quote] So i guess 21-5A is weak and didnt prepare anyone for the playoffs, if thats the case lets start the playoffs after pre-district.  ::)

[b]BTW, pre-district doesnt prepare you for the playoffs[/b]  ;)

[TradinUp BH]

BTW, pre-district doesnt prepare you for the playoffs 

It appears 21-5a doesn't either. ;D

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="TradinUp BH" post="1336184" timestamp="1353260205"]
BTW, pre-district doesnt prepare you for the playoffs 

It appears 21-5a doesn't either. ;D
[/quote]agree to disagree  8)

[TradinUp BH]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336187" timestamp="1353260291"]
[quote author=TradinUp BH link=topic=106477.msg1336184#msg1336184 date=1353260205]
BTW, pre-district doesnt prepare you for the playoffs 

It appears 21-5a doesn't either. ;D
[/quote]agree to disagree  8)
[/quote]

Ya'll were like Vidor this year. Both are quality teams, but you drew the short straw and ran into very good teams first round. Happens, and now you know why BH has been one and done the last several years. BH had to face teams first round that were HOT at that time. Central Beat us and went deep, PNG beat us, and gave Manvel a good game, and Ozen beat us. I think all 3 went atleast to the 3rd round. PAM will bounce back next year.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="TradinUp BH" post="1336194" timestamp="1353260493"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336187#msg1336187 date=1353260291]
[quote author=TradinUp BH link=topic=106477.msg1336184#msg1336184 date=1353260205]
BTW, pre-district doesnt prepare you for the playoffs 

It appears 21-5a doesn't either. ;D
[/quote]agree to disagree  8)
[/quote]

Ya'll were like Vidor this year. Both are quality teams, but you drew the short straw and ran into very good teams first round. Happens, and now you know why BH has been one and done the last several years. BH had to face teams first round that were HOT at that time. Central Beat us and went deep, PNG beat us, and gave Manvel a good game, and Ozen beat us. I think all 3 went atleast to the 3rd round. PAM will bounce back next year.
[/quote]only team in the district that will be for sure loaded is LP, i dont know how the district will pair out next season (as far as playoff seeding)....

[finger roll]

They were seen eating crow after talking smack about Lake Travis being 1 and done.  Sometimes its better to keep quiet when you are green with envy...

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="finger roll" post="1336254" timestamp="1353263392"]
They were seen eating crow after talking smack about Lake Travis being 1 and done.  Sometimes its better to keep quiet when you are green with envy...
[/quote]but who's green with envy? when you have a fanbase as arrogant as LT was spring and summer about DESTROYING the 5A comp thats gonna cause alot of slander being one-n-done. I take it you're a LT fan? if so i take you were on the 5A site this past spring and summer as well?  ;)

[finger roll]

Ahhh you took the bait...  I'm actually a South East Texas fan but spend a lot of time in Austin. I've been to a few Lake Travis games.  Mainly because they have played in the State Championship 5 years in a row.  I have not seen any arrogance from their fans in person but I didn't see the 5A board you talk about either.  Every team has some arrogant fans.  All of them.  Hey even you showed some arrogance with your "2012 rematch with Cibolo Steele".  That's basically saying that PAM was going to just walk through the first few opponents with east.  That's being a little arrogant don't ya think??  Be honest..if you win 5 State Championships in a row you have the right to be a little arrogant.  I was pulling for both teams actually but now since they are on the 1 and done train to basketball season I'll have to follow EC, Newton, D-ville, Nederland, BH, WOS, and Silsbee move on to the second round.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="finger roll" post="1336274" timestamp="1353264287"]
Ahhh you took the bait...  I'm actually a South East Texas fan but spend a lot of time in Austin. I've been to a few Lake Travis games.  Mainly because they have played in the State Championship 5 years in a row.  [b]I have not seen any arrogance from their fans in person but I didn't see the 5A board you talk about either.[/b]  Every team has some arrogant fans.  All of them.  [b]Hey even you showed some arrogance with your "2012 rematch with Cibolo Steele".  That's basically saying that PAM was going to just walk through the first few opponents with east.  That's being a little arrogant don't ya think??[/b]  Be honest..if you win 5 State Championships in a row you have the right to be a little arrogant.  I was pulling for both teams actually but now since they are on the 1 and done train to basketball season I'll have to follow EC, Newton, D-ville, Nederland, BH, WOS, and Silsbee move on to the second round.
[/quote]Dont know what bait you're talking bout but i saw one of the lil comments before on the board in reference to LT and to answer your question: an infacted NO! But i do think saying you're gonna destroy the 5A comp based of what you did in 4A is kinda arrogant seeing as they havent won anything yet.  ;)

When Steele, SLC, SV moved on up i didnt see the type of comments that a few LT posters were making about destroying the 5A comp.

[finger roll]

So what if a few of their fans said that.  I'm sure it wasn't a player or coach or the majority of the fans there.  Remember they have been to the State Championship 5 years in a row.  I'm sure they knew they were stepping up with the big boys.  Don't agree with your comment about they havn't won anything yet.  5 rings is something.  What did they do this year?  9 wins 1 loss and then 1 and done in the playoffs.  Not a bad year.  Looks pretty much like what PAM did doesn't it.  You did have the comment up for nearly a year that PAM would rematch with CS in 2012....How can you not consider that arrogant? 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="finger roll" post="1336294" timestamp="1353265261"]
So what if a few of their fans said that.  I'm sure it wasn't a player or coach or the majority of the fans there.  Remember they have been to the State Championship 5 years in a row.  I'm sure they knew they were stepping up with the big boys.  [b]Don't agree with your comment about they havn't won anything yet.[/b]  5 rings is something.  What did they do this year?  9 wins 1 loss and then 1 and done in the playoffs.  Not a bad year.  Looks pretty much like what PAM did doesn't it.  You did have the comment up for nearly a year that PAM would rematch with CS in 2012....How can you not consider that arrogant?
[/quote]And good for them as i said before,[b] in 4A[/b]. This is their first year in 5A, you tell me what have they won ???. And as far as the comment that was up did it state we would destroy the region all the way to the Alamodome? Nope. ;) 

I thought i saw you on here --> http://www.setxsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=106391.0

[finger roll]

Put it back up there so we can see exactly what it said.  Something about PAM will rematch Steele deep in the playoffs.  Arrogantly looking past the first few rounds.  Very similar to what the goofy LT fans were saying.  Hey take a breath Mr. Buddy.  I'm just pulling your chain.  I knew it would be easy as soon as I saw how jealous you were of LT.  Good luck next year for PAM.  I hope to see them go deep in basketball.  [quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336300" timestamp="1353265680"]
[quote author=finger roll link=topic=106477.msg1336294#msg1336294 date=1353265261]
So what if a few of their fans said that.  I'm sure it wasn't a player or coach or the majority of the fans there.  Remember they have been to the State Championship 5 years in a row.  I'm sure they knew they were stepping up with the big boys.  [b]Don't agree with your comment about they havn't won anything yet.[/b]  5 rings is something.  What did they do this year?  9 wins 1 loss and then 1 and done in the playoffs.  Not a bad year.  Looks pretty much like what PAM did doesn't it.  You did have the comment up for nearly a year that PAM would rematch with CS in 2012....How can you not consider that arrogant?
[/quote]And good for them as i said before,[b] in 4A[/b]. This is their first year in 5A, you tell me what have they won ???. And as far as the comment that was up did it state we would destroy the region all the way to the Alamodome? Nope. ;) 

I thought i saw you on here --> http://www.setxsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=106391.0
[/quote]

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="finger roll" post="1336333" timestamp="1353266994"]
Put it back up there so we can see exactly what it said.  Something about PAM will rematch Steele deep in the playoffs.  Arrogantly looking past the first few rounds.  Very similar to what the goofy LT fans were saying.  Hey take a breath Mr. Buddy.  I'm just pulling your chain.  I knew it would be easy as soon as I saw how jealous you were of LT.  Good luck next year for PAM.  I hope to see them go deep in basketball.  [quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336300#msg1336300 date=1353265680]
[quote author=finger roll link=topic=106477.msg1336294#msg1336294 date=1353265261]
So what if a few of their fans said that.  I'm sure it wasn't a player or coach or the majority of the fans there.  Remember they have been to the State Championship 5 years in a row.  I'm sure they knew they were stepping up with the big boys.  [b]Don't agree with your comment about they havn't won anything yet.[/b]  5 rings is something.  What did they do this year?  9 wins 1 loss and then 1 and done in the playoffs.  Not a bad year.  Looks pretty much like what PAM did doesn't it.  You did have the comment up for nearly a year that PAM would rematch with CS in 2012....How can you not consider that arrogant?
[/quote]And good for them as i said before,[b] in 4A[/b]. This is their first year in 5A, you tell me what have they won ???. And as far as the comment that was up did it state we would destroy the region all the way to the Alamodome? Nope. ;) 

I thought i saw you on here --> http://www.setxsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=106391.0
[/quote]
[/quote]but who's jealous though? i dont think anyone on here is, at least not me, they havent won anything in 5A. im more envious (sp) of SLC for what they have done in [b]5A[/b] but thats just me.  8)

[xLmCoog88]

[color=navy][b]Ah c'mon now fella. To be fair you can't discount LT's accomplishments based solely on the fact that they haven't won a state championship in 5A. It's no easy feat to win much less get to 5 title games in any classification. You play who you play based on UIL #'s and they did that with much success so I tip my hat to them. One year in 5A doesn't dictate what's in their future and a playoff loss in the 1st round when they moved up to 5A is mere coincidence and very well my have been a case of what can happen on any given Friday night? It's not like a big old 5A team blew them out 48-0 and they weren't ever in the game. As for envy, I see it on this board every year and although some may not agree with me when folks are used to mediocrity & they typically fall short, they tend to fall into that envious category the original poster spoke of.[/b][/color]

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="xLmCoog88" post="1336516" timestamp="1353277610"]
[color=navy][b]Ah c'mon now fella. To be fair [b]you can't discount LT's accomplishments[/b] based solely on the fact that they haven't won a state championship in 5A. It's no easy feat to win much less get to 5 title games in any classification. You play who you play based on UIL #'s and they did that with much success so I tip my hat to them. One year in 5A doesn't dictate what's in their future and a playoff loss in the 1st round when they moved up to 5A is mere coincidence and very well my have been a case of what can happen on any given Friday night? It's not like a big old 5A team blew them out 48-0 and they weren't ever in the game. As for envy, I see it on this board every year and although some may not agree with me when folks are used to mediocrity & they typically fall short, they tend to fall into that envious category the original poster spoke of.[/b][/color]
[/quote]Agree to disagree  8) I dont think anyone is discounting their 4A accomplishments. 4A accomplishments by them was good, i applaud them, that didnt help them [b]"destroy the 5A Comp"[/b] like [b]was said[/b] spring/summer.  ;)

[xLmCoog88]

[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="xLmCoog88" post="1336592" timestamp="1353284042"]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)

[xLmCoog88]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336596" timestamp="1353284342"]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336592#msg1336592 date=1353284042]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]Na, their team as a whole isn't humbled with a loss and I'd bet they'll chalk it up as a "L", learn from it and be in the thick of it again as a state title contender next year. I wouldn't bet against them and I'll put them up against anyone next year to thrive against and I don't even know what they have coming back? I wouldn't do that with many teams with good conscious, would you?[/b][/color]

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="xLmCoog88" post="1336611" timestamp="1353285148"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336596#msg1336596 date=1353284342]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336592#msg1336592 date=1353284042]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]Na, their team as a whole isn't humbled with a loss and I'd bet they'll chalk it up as a "L", learn from it and be in the thick of it again as a state title contender next year. I wouldn't bet against them and I'll put them up against anyone next year to thrive against and I don't even know what they have coming back? I wouldn't do that with many teams with good conscious, would you?[/b][/color]
[/quote]I would with SLC, Katy and Steele cause they have had alot of recent success lately speaking in terms of 5A.  8)

[xLmCoog88]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336613" timestamp="1353285293"]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336611#msg1336611 date=1353285148]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336596#msg1336596 date=1353284342]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336592#msg1336592 date=1353284042]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]Na, their team as a whole isn't humbled with a loss and I'd bet they'll chalk it up as a "L", learn from it and be in the thick of it again as a state title contender next year. I wouldn't bet against them and I'll put them up against anyone next year to thrive against and I don't even know what they have coming back? I wouldn't do that with many teams with good conscious, would you?[/b][/color]
[/quote]I would with SLC, Katy and Steele cause they have had alot of recent success lately speaking in terms of 5A.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]There's no debating with ya fella...you simply don't like them and your minds made up...good luck with that mind set. My question was to make a point not to question other teams capabilities. If you noticed I said "many teams" so the presumption of other teams falling into that category is already a given thus YES they too have elite status. You simply think because they are up from 4A they have something to prove on the 5A level to be considered legit? Really....4A to 5A isn't a big deal whatsoever with 2 divisions and after they win on the 5A level what's next for them to conquer...6A? How many titles or appearances does PAM have in the finals and how long have they been in 5A? Hmmmmm?[/b][/color]

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="xLmCoog88" post="1336623" timestamp="1353286460"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336613#msg1336613 date=1353285293]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336611#msg1336611 date=1353285148]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336596#msg1336596 date=1353284342]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336592#msg1336592 date=1353284042]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]Na, their team as a whole isn't humbled with a loss and I'd bet they'll chalk it up as a "L", learn from it and be in the thick of it again as a state title contender next year. I wouldn't bet against them and I'll put them up against anyone next year to thrive against and I don't even know what they have coming back? I wouldn't do that with many teams with good conscious, would you?[/b][/color]
[/quote]I would with SLC, Katy and Steele cause they have had alot of recent success lately speaking in terms of 5A.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]There's no debating with ya fella...you simply don't like them and your minds made up...good luck with that mind set. My question was to make a point not to question other teams capabilities. If you noticed I said "many teams" so the presumption of other teams falling into that category is already a given thus YES they too have elite status. You simply think because they are up from 4A they have something to prove on the 5A level to be considered legit? Really....4A to 5A isn't a big deal whatsoever with 2 divisions and after they win on the 5A level what's next for them to conquer...6A? How many titles or appearances does PAM have in the finals and how long have they been in 5A? Hmmmmm?[/b][/color]
[/quote]Who said i didnt like them? [b]I dont like Katy[/b] but i dont go around boasting about it LOL. Are you mad cause i dont share the same opinion as you and others? If so then sorry not sorry, its a message board, you're gonna see alot of opinions you dont like.  ;)

BTW, didnt know this was a [b]debate[/b], that totally went above my head and others.  ;D

[xLmCoog88]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1336626" timestamp="1353286892"]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336623#msg1336623 date=1353286460]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336613#msg1336613 date=1353285293]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336611#msg1336611 date=1353285148]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=106477.msg1336596#msg1336596 date=1353284342]
[quote author=xLmCoog88 link=topic=106477.msg1336592#msg1336592 date=1353284042]
[color=navy][b]Perhaps you're being a bit short sited on their ability to succeed on the 5A level for whatever reason? You can have disdain for what a few posters may have said but to lump them into a cocky fan base entirely is unwarranted IMO. When you excel and exceed expectations on a routine basis winning becomes 2nd nature and great teams fan bases don't lower their expectations and rightly so. If you can't beat'em...try to emulate the things they've done to take your program to the next level? I will say this with no hesitation...LT is on another level and you can say whatever you'd like about them but there are only a hand full of teams in the State that have an authentic shot to bring home a title on any given year and they are in fact part of that elite few![/b][/color]
[/quote] welp, agree to disagree, i know what i saw this spring/summer, maybe they're a lil bit humbled now.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]Na, their team as a whole isn't humbled with a loss and I'd bet they'll chalk it up as a "L", learn from it and be in the thick of it again as a state title contender next year. I wouldn't bet against them and I'll put them up against anyone next year to thrive against and I don't even know what they have coming back? I wouldn't do that with many teams with good conscious, would you?[/b][/color]
[/quote]I would with SLC, Katy and Steele cause they have had alot of recent success lately speaking in terms of 5A.  8)
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]There's no debating with ya fella...you simply don't like them and your minds made up...good luck with that mind set. My question was to make a point not to question other teams capabilities. If you noticed I said "many teams" so the presumption of other teams falling into that category is already a given thus YES they too have elite status. You simply think because they are up from 4A they have something to prove on the 5A level to be considered legit? Really....4A to 5A isn't a big deal whatsoever with 2 divisions and after they win on the 5A level what's next for them to conquer...6A? How many titles or appearances does PAM have in the finals and how long have they been in 5A? Hmmmmm?[/b][/color]
[/quote]Who said i didnt like them? [b]I dont like Katy[/b] but i dont go around boasting about it LOL. Are you mad cause i dont share the same opinion as you and others? If so then sorry not sorry, its a message board, you're gonna see alot of opinions you dont like.  ;)

BTW, didnt know this was a [b]debate[/b], that totally went above my head and others.  ;D
[/quote]

[color=navy][b]If it wasn't a debate then why the need to agree to disagree? Also, thanks for informing me of how a BB works because after all this is my first rodeo. ;) Why would I be mad on what your opinion is? :o I have no dog in the fight but I give credit where it's due and I don't minimize teams legitimacy as a program based on what classification they are/were in to give them their due. I'm quite sure you guys can schedule them for a preseason game and see how legit they are or aren't? I've been to the show 10 times with 5 titles so I'm a pretty happy & content fan from LM. ;D[/b][/color]