What's up with Nederland!?!

[asary]

[quote name="85' HUSKER" post="1366894" timestamp="1359160612"]
Sorry for the delay. It was necessary for me to go underground in order to avoid the Nederland Homers. They have been on my trail this week and are PO'd. I felt it was safe tonight to respond since they are all out of town. During road games only the old geezer's are left behind and I feel I can slip them. Back on topic. What's up with Nederland?

Actually, you only need to look at the team and their athletic ability, or lack there of, as compared to that of Ozen and Central players. It is easy to see overall we don't match up. With that being said, Coach English has done a MASTERFUL job with the talent level. He has got the community involved and has his specialists playing around the clock. Coach knows this is a must with the slower less athletic player. The around the clock play along with his coaching is what keeps us at least competitive this year.

It would also help if our boy's were not so soft and would play to their strengths. These are all great kids, but as their parents will tell you, they are lovers not fighters. Unfortunately, BB has changed to a much more physical game and some nights those lovers just can't match up. Also, it is true we have one of the best high-jumpers in the state. However, with a team that has a rebound problem, against the good teams, you would think the high-jumper would average more than 1-2 RBs a night. Of course, if you don't like hard contact you're not going to pound the boards. It is what it is.

I believe the real reason this team is presently 3rd in district and has already lost the home court advantage to Ozen abd Central is because the better multisport athletes are no longer staying with the program. This trend has been going on for the last 3-4 years and it has fianlly caught up with the program -- ala 3rd place. I will refer to this subject as part 2 and it is where I think Coach has room for improvement. Stay tuned
[/quote]
Sounds to me like a dad with sour grapes to grind.  ::) You're telling me if we had the 2 other football players on the team we would have district all but wrapped up. Give me a freakin break. Kimler is the best football/basketball athlete by far and he is on the team.  :o

[Honest Abe]

Plus it is an exception (ie Doty, Holmes, Green) as it is to 'the rule'. 8) These kids probably picked up a basketball more than once/month between March and November.

[NDOMAKONG]

Isn't the Kelvin Smith analogy a bit of an exception also?  One of.the best players the program ever had.

[NDOMAKONG]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1367189" timestamp="1359227034"]
Those kids you mentioned are 'pure athletes'. We are talking about kids in Nederland. Apples n oranges AAW.
[/quote]

Shaw is not a pure athlete?  Just trying to follow the logic, I'm slow like that.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="NDOMAKONG" post="1367206" timestamp="1359231063"]
Isn't the Kelvin Smith analogy a bit of an exception also?  One of.the best players the program ever had.
[/quote]He was one of the best kids the program ever had, true. But did you happen to see him play as a Sophomore? He could barely catch the ball and/or dribble. If he had not put in the hours of work, he would NEVER had been the MVP of the district his senior year. If he had played a second sport, I suspect he would have not been more than a role player for the team. The fact is, he was not athletic enough to play other sports. His HARD WORK led him to be the great basketball player he became.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="NDOMAKONG" post="1367209" timestamp="1359231339"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108406.msg1367189#msg1367189 date=1359227034]
Those kids you mentioned are 'pure athletes'. We are talking about kids in Nederland. Apples n oranges AAW.
[/quote]

Shaw is not a pure athlete?  Just trying to follow the logic, I'm slow like that.
[/quote]Does Shaw start or 'star' on the basketball team as he did on the FB team? No. He contributes as does Kimler.

Plus, Shaw hasn't played basketball (organized) in 2/3 years. Nobody expects him to be a key player on the team. Had he stuck to playing basketball over the past 2 years, he would likely attribute much more, bc he is very athletic. Same can be said about the Woods kid. Wish he would have stuck to Bball. Although he's not that tall, he was a good scorer on the block bc of his size, quickness, and athletic ability.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1367183" timestamp="1359224639"]
Silsbee's top two scores in Chris Elam and Jordan Holmes were football stars on the field. Also Silsbee All-State QB Patrick Reed is 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder for Silsbee.
[/quote]Just curious: do those kids you mention play basketball in the spring and summer? Also, do they lift weights during their football period on basketball game days?

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1367224" timestamp="1359233646"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=108406.msg1367183#msg1367183 date=1359224639]
Silsbee's top two scores in Chris Elam and Jordan Holmes were football stars on the field. Also Silsbee All-State QB Patrick Reed is 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder for Silsbee.
[/quote]Just curious: do those kids you mention play basketball in the spring and summer? Also, do they lift weights during their football period on basketball game days?
[/quote]


They play summer ball but also play 7 on 7.

Those players are in basketball class during basketball season.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1367230" timestamp="1359234947"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108406.msg1367224#msg1367224 date=1359233646]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=108406.msg1367183#msg1367183 date=1359224639]
Silsbee's top two scores in Chris Elam and Jordan Holmes were football stars on the field. Also Silsbee All-State QB Patrick Reed is 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder for Silsbee.
[/quote]Just curious: do those kids you mention play basketball in the spring and summer? Also, do they lift weights during their football period on basketball game days?
[/quote]


They play summer ball but also play 7 on 7.

Those players are in basketball class during basketball season.
[/quote]There lies the difference. Those kids you mentioned play basketball in the Spring/Summer, so they are good at both sports. Cant expect to star in both sports if you're not gifted AND work in the off season.

Nice luxury to have your kids in a basketball class during the season. Our kids at Nederland do not have that option. :-X

[scapegoat]

IMO the problem is Basketball coach and Football coach do not get along.The multi-sport kids suffer for it.*Can't We Just All Get Along"

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367380" timestamp="1359309422"]
IMO the problem is Basketball coach and Football coach do not get along.The multi-sport kids suffer for it.*Can't We Just All Get Along"
[/quote]Yep, the kids are the one's who suffer bc of some who :-X
Not gonna open up that box of worms again. I think MOST people in Nederland know this story.

[scapegoat]

Both sides have faults.Problem is not one sided 

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367527" timestamp="1359397034"]
Both sides have faults.Problem is not one sided 
[/quote]How can both programs be at fault when only one person makes all of the decisions?

[CThoops]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1367554" timestamp="1359400539"]
[quote author=scapegoat link=topic=108406.msg1367527#msg1367527 date=1359397034]
Both sides have faults.Problem is not one sided 
[/quote]How can both programs be at fault when only one person makes all of the decisions?
[/quote]

;)

[scapegoat]

Just call it like I see it!Have a kid still in the program.Do not want to get specific and possibly hurt my kid.Both sides need to give a little for the kids.When son gets out of program in few years I will give my opinion how both could change.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367675" timestamp="1359427158"]
Just call it like I see it!Have a kid still in the program.Do not want to get specific and possibly hurt my kid.Both sides need to give a little for the kids.When son gets out of program in few years I will give my opinion how both could change.
[/quote] Why wait  ??? You're already the "scapecoat."  ;)

[5GallonBucket]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1367675" timestamp="1359427158"]
Just call it like I see it!Have a kid still in the program.Do not want to get specific and possibly hurt my kid.Both sides need to give a little for the kids.When son gets out of program in few years I will give my opinion how both could change.
[/quote]

Is this what you actually see/hear or is it what your son sees/hears then tells you?

[Brubaker]

Folks are on here talking about what's best for the kids, why wouldn't what a kid is seeing/feeling/hearing/experiencing be what's most relevant? 

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="Brubaker" post="1367780" timestamp="1359471299"]
Folks are on here talking about what's best for the kids, why wouldn't what a kid is seeing/feeling/hearing/experiencing be what's most relevant?
[/quote]Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone dismissed what you suggested.

IMO, It's not right when a kid cannot participate in a sport at 100% bc his other sport is in off-season training. In addition, when other schools allow their student-athletes to move their athletic class from one sport to the next, (but other schools (like Nederland) do not allow that)),it affects all kids in that other sport. Also, when one school has two coaches in a sport, yet other schools have 4/5 coaches, that also is not fair to the kids in the program or the program itself.

My kid currently plays two sports very well. He is not sure of which one he wants to pursue when he reaches HS. He would like to do both, but he may not have that choice. Is that fair to him?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1367788" timestamp="1359472844"]
[quote author=Brubaker link=topic=108406.msg1367780#msg1367780 date=1359471299]
Folks are on here talking about what's best for the kids, why wouldn't what a kid is seeing/feeling/hearing/experiencing be what's most relevant?
[/quote]Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone dismissed what you suggested.

IMO, It's not right when a kid cannot participate in a sport at 100% bc his other sport is in off-season training. In addition, when other schools allow their student-athletes to move their athletic class from one sport to the next, (but other schools (like Nederland) do not allow that)),it affects all kids in that other sport. Also, when one school has two coaches in a sport, yet other schools have 4/5 coaches, that also is not fair to the kids in the program or the program itself.

My kid currently plays two sports very well. He is not sure of which one he wants to pursue when he reaches HS. He would like to do both, but he may not have that choice. Is that fair to him?
[/quote] *da Dove sits back in his rocker and relaxes......."  ohhhhhh! Now I get it  :D

[scapegoat]

.Abe in Nederland as it currently stands your son will have to choose football or basketball.It is not fair that other schools make it work but Nederland can't.Do not know if block scheduling is the problem or not.It is sad that the kids could play for two of the best coaches in the state of Texas at one school.As it is,the football players can be role players at the underclassman level but year around basketball players are starters because the coach feels like the extra practice time they get will make them better than the football players in the long run.Hard for football players to accept this when they know their ability is better but coach does not follow the "best should play" rule for underclassmen.Much like soccer and baseball you can't play both.You can but you will not be treated fairly.No one says life is going to be fair.The kids learn this the hard way and move on.The same thing happened in Vidor.Do not know which coach is at fault for not letting the kids in the basketball class but it is not fair to the kids.I do know that there is only one common denominator in the Vidor and Nederland problems 

[Honest Abe]

Not sure what happened in Vidor, all I know is that they were good when Coach E was there, and he completely turned that program around. Vidor went from being the worst team almost very year to reaching the playoffs a few years AND beating Ozen 3 Xs in one year (for you Dove ;D )! Since he left, Vidor has not been above (or near) .500 in district play. He has done the same in Nederland, yet you claim he's discouraging kids from playing and that he's NOT playing the best players unless they play Bball year round? ???

From what I hear, he and Matthews got along well, and they are still friends today. I also know that Coach E. wants his kids to be in his class when basketball starts. Sounds like you are suggesting he doesn't want them in the class? Maybe i misread what you meant. Truth is, he (and others) have fought hard for that to happen, but those in power will not allow that to happen. Therefore, the kids who want to play both sports suffer, AND the kids in the Bball program suffer.

Kids get behind early bc its difficult to learn all of the plays when one is not at practice every day. It may be a reason a few of them didn't play basketball this year. Are you suggesting he doesn't want them in the class bc he feels like he has to play the kids who are full time Bball players? Seriously?? Remember Forney and Cunningham from two years ago? They both played football AND started on the basketball team. They spent extra time in the gym in the offseason and they were the best players, therefore they played. Come on man!

Speaking of playing the best players, do the best players NOT currently play? Who should play more and why? You also mentioned lower classmen who are discouraged to play bc the kids who play year round will start bc they play all year but other kids may be better athletes. It's only natural that the kids who play year are actually better players. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Forney was the District MVP his Junior year. He played Football too. Kelvin Smith played year round basketball, and he ended up being the district MVP the following year. Forney was still a great player, but Smith got better by focusing on one sport. I plan to teach my kid that if he wants to play both, he will have to put in extra hours for basketball. Just bc he is better than his peers now in both sports does not mean he will be better in 3/4 years especially if he plays both sports and they don't. 8)

[asary]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368377" timestamp="1359602271"]
.Abe in Nederland as it currently stands your son will have to choose football or basketball.It is not fair that other schools make it work but Nederland can't.Do not know if block scheduling is the problem or not.It is sad that the kids could play for two of the best coaches in the state of Texas at one school.As it is,the football players can be role players at the underclassman level but year around basketball players are starters because the coach feels like the extra practice time they get will make them better than the football players in the long run.Hard for football players to accept this when they know their ability is better but coach does not follow the "best should play" rule for underclassmen.Much like soccer and baseball you can't play both.You can but you will not be treated fairly.No one says life is going to be fair.The kids learn this the hard way and move on.The same thing happened in Vidor.Do not know which coach is at fault for not letting the kids in the basketball class but it is not fair to the kids.[b]I do know that there is only one common denominator in the Vidor and Nederland problems [/b]
[/quote]
You gotta be kiddin me.  ::)

[asary]

What will the FB boys be participating in in the next wk or so? Camp Fun, right? The BBall team will still be playing right? So the FB boys would HAVE to participate in Camp Fun, then play in a BB playoff game? How is that fair to those boys or their BB teammates, or Coach E, or the BB program? It isn't fair. Neither is the FB boys having to go to FB Offseason even when they are playing BB. That sucks but it is what it is. That's why more and more multisport kids are choosing to just play 1 sport.

[DogFan3]

As long as the same person stays in charge of Nederland athletics this will never change. It is all about football at nederland and always will be as long as he is in charge. Seems like you would want all your sports to succeed but the way he puts football first and nothing else matters then we will be stuck in this same situation......... :'(