What's up with Nederland!?!

[BLUEDOVE3]

Dang, I'm running out of popcorn!

[asary]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1368421" timestamp="1359640636"]
Dang, I'm running out of popcorn!
[/quote]
Better refill that popcorn and grab a big drink, the can of worms has been opened!  ;D

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="DogFan3" post="1368420" timestamp="1359640596"]
As long as the same person stays in charge of Nederland athletics this will never change. It is all about football at nederland and always will be as long as he is in charge. Seems like you would want all your sports to succeed but the way he puts football first and nothing else matters then we will be stuck in this same situation......... :'(
[/quote]Bingo! We have a winner! ;)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1368424" timestamp="1359641506"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108406.msg1368421#msg1368421 date=1359640636]
Dang, I'm running out of popcorn!
[/quote]
Better refill that popcorn and grab a big drink, the can of worms has been opened!  ;D
[/quote] No shiggidy!  ;D

[5GallonBucket]

Sounds like SCAPEGOAT's kid plays both sports and probably rides the pine in basketball.  He's like a lot of parents who believes lil johnny is the best thing to the sport but yet he doesn't get to play, so he blames the coach and looks for excuses rather than seeing his kids ability for what it really is.

Just because lil johnny was an allstar lil dribbler when he was young doesn't mean he's gonna be an all star in high school.....too many parents cant see this.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="5gallonbucket" post="1368431" timestamp="1359642640"]
Sounds like SCAPEGOAT's kid plays both sports and probably rides the pine in basketball.  He's like a lot of parents who believes lil johnny is the best thing to the sport but yet he doesn't get to play, so he blames the coach and looks for excuses rather than seeing his kids ability for what it really is.

Just because lil johnny was an allstar lil dribbler when he was young doesn't mean he's gonna be an all star in high school.....too many parents cant see this.
[/quote]Hmmmm! Between HJ football thread and this one, I'm definitely gonna have to run to store for extra popcorn and sodas :D

[Brubaker]

[quote name="5gallonbucket" post="1368431" timestamp="1359642640"]

[/quote]

[5GallonBucket]

was he discouraged from playing or did he just not make the cut.....

if he didn't make the cut due to other players being better than he was
did he:
    a. give up on basketball
    b. put more work in on his basketball skills during his personal time, so he
        could come back his soph year and try to make the team.

just because someone doesn't make the team doesn't mean he's being discouraged from playing the sport....it means he needs to work harder and improve his game.

if someone doesn't get a job is that employer discouraging him from getting a job. so now he just gives up on working.

too many kids now go to their parents to save them when they don't get what they wanted or don't make the team or don't get enough playing time......and there parents go right along with it.....its never the kids fault, its never that the kid is not good enough....
come on people.... 

[asary]

[quote name="5gallonbucket" post="1368461" timestamp="1359646650"]
was he discouraged from playing or did he just not make the cut.....

if he didn't make the cut due to other players being better than he was
did he:
    a. give up on basketball
    b. put more work in on his basketball skills during his personal time, so he
        could come back his soph year and try to make the team.

just because someone doesn't make the team doesn't mean he's being discouraged from playing the sport....it means he needs to work harder and improve his game.

if someone doesn't get a job is that employer discouraging him from getting a job. so now he just gives up on working.

too many kids now go to their parents to save them when they don't get what they wanted or don't make the team or don't get enough playing time......and there parents go right along with it.....its never the kids fault, its never that the kid is not good enough....
come on people....
[/quote]
Well said. IMO basketball requires much more work to excel in than any other sport. You can't pick up a basketball 2 months a year and expect to get better.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="5 on 5" post="1368472" timestamp="1359647850"]
[quote author=5gallonbucket link=topic=108406.msg1368461#msg1368461 date=1359646650]
was he discouraged from playing or did he just not make the cut.....

if he didn't make the cut due to other players being better than he was
did he:
    a. give up on basketball
    b. put more work in on his basketball skills during his personal time, so he
        could come back his soph year and try to make the team.

just because someone doesn't make the team doesn't mean he's being discouraged from playing the sport....it means he needs to work harder and improve his game.

if someone doesn't get a job is that employer discouraging him from getting a job. so now he just gives up on working.

too many kids now go to their parents to save them when they don't get what they wanted or don't make the team or don't get enough playing time......and there parents go right along with it.....its never the kids fault, its never that the kid is not good enough....
come on people....
[/quote]
Well said. IMO basketball requires much more work to excel in than any other sport. You can't pick up a basketball 2 months a year and expect to get better.
[/quote] Unlike football ;)

[scapegoat]

Well bucket since you doubt what I say is true and insult me,here is some information that may shed some light.I know you do not know the kids we are talking about or you would not make the comments you have.After the fourth game with Ozen that year the coach from Ozen told me that my son made the best decisions with the ball and could not understand why he did not get more playing time.Now tell me how I am suppose to handle this?I was recently informed by the best player on the team this years parent that he had a conversation with the freshman coach from that season.He told him that the only thing he regreted about his time in Nederland is that when he looked at the end of his bench at the start of the game three of his best players were down there because the head coach told him to put them there.And by the way the reason Vidors soccer team became so good during his era is the kids that used to go from football to basketball started going to soccer instead of basketball after the way they were treated by basketball.

[scapegoat]

Now time for 5 on 5 response.Tell me how my son was suppose to get better by playing in the summer when he was not invited by them to do so.Lets say he plays the same position that the person that funds the summer tournaments son does.How often you you think he will get called to play to take some of money parents kids playing time.We will never know how it would have turned out but you can bet my son has zero respect for the basketball coach 

[5GallonBucket]

if you refer to my post I started off with "sounds like"  i never said i knew.  so how is that an insult to you.

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368529" timestamp="1359655204"]
Well bucket since you doubt what I say is true and insult me,here is some information that may shed some light.I know you do not know the kids we are talking about or you would not make the comments you have.After the fourth game with Ozen that year the coach from Ozen told me that my son made the best decisions with the ball and could not understand why he did not get more playing time.Now tell me how I am suppose to handle this?[b]I was recently informed by the best player on the team this years parent that he had a conversation with the freshman coach from that season.He told him that the only thing he regreted about his time in Nederland is that when he looked at the end of his bench at the start of the game three of his best players were down there because the head coach told him to put them there.[/b]And by the way the reason Vidors soccer team became so good during his era is the kids that used to go from football to basketball started going to soccer instead of basketball after the way they were treated by basketball.
[/quote]

i gather from the bold text that information went from one person to another person to you.  gotta be careful with creditability of info that goes through several people. 

im not saying your wrong scapegoat.

im saying i know coach english alot better than most of you.  He's gonna play who he thinks is gonna produce wins....
If you know the plays, you know the defenses, you produce, and have a great attitude and work ethic coach E is gonna play you.

he's not perfect he may make some bad decisions everybody does...and just because one coach said this and another said that....every coach has their own philosphy and ways of coaching. 

There is struggle between football and basketball at Nederland.  Football coaches want their players in offseason lifting weights/agility drills.  Basketball coaches want their players in the gym working on skills and knowledge of the system in place.
why cant football players go from football to basketball?  why is that so difficult at Nederland?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368536" timestamp="1359656277"]
Now time for 5 on 5 response.Tell me how my son was suppose to get better by playing in the summer when he was not invited by them to do so.Lets say he plays the same position that the person that funds the summer tournaments son does.How often you you think he will get called to play to take some of money parents kids playing time.We will never know how it would have turned out but you can bet my son has zero respect for the basketball coach
[/quote]Dang!!!!

[5GallonBucket]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368536" timestamp="1359656277"]
Now time for 5 on 5 response.Tell me how my son was suppose to get better by playing in the summer when he was not invited by them to do so.Lets say he plays the same position that the person that funds the summer tournaments son does.How often you you think he will get called to play to take some of money parents kids playing time.We will never know how it would have turned out but you can bet my son has zero respect for the basketball coach
[/quote]

I played every summer at my house, at the park, and at the gym.  My highshool didn't have anyone funding a summer basketball team.  We didn't have one.  My parents didn't have the money to put me on an AAU team.  But i found ways to get better.  i played everyday whether it was by myself or with other individuals.  I took it upon myself to get better because it was up to me, not anyone else.....and i was rewarded by playing college ball.

the whole money ball thing is a sad issue in today's world....i seee it in highschool and saw it in college so i understand how that can play a factor and it shouldn't.

[asary]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368536" timestamp="1359656277"]
Now time for 5 on 5 response.Tell me how my son was suppose to get better by playing in the summer when he was not invited by them to do so.Lets say he plays the same position that the person that funds the summer tournaments son does.How often you you think he will get called to play to take some of money parents kids playing time.We will never know how it would have turned out but you can bet my son has zero respect for the basketball coach
[/quote]
I do understand your point. My post was not specifically referring to organized summer ball. I was talking about individual efforts to improve, spending time in the weight room, spending time in the gym working on basketball skills, individual time working on agility quickness etc. There are weekend clinics and open camps in Houston almost every weekend. Lamar has a summer BB camp, etc, etc. just because he wasn't invited to play last year doesn't mean he can't be invited next year. Some kids have to work harder to excel than others, and unfortunately some never will despite how hard they work. Some develop later than others. Don't blame the coach, encourage your son to work for what he wants. And as far as believing the parent you are referring to, I wouldn't believe everything he says anyway.

[Honest Abe]

So a coach goes to school A and implements his ideas which turn that school from zero playoff appearances in school history (and being the district bottom dweller) to making the playoffs three straight years.
That same coach leaves that program, and school A goes back to it's losing ways.
That same coach goes to School B, and turns that program around (using ideas he thinks will make the team better), and that team is suddenly winning district championships and winning 2/3 playoff games/year.
Somehow this coach gets ZERO respect from someone bc of how that coach runs their program? ??? Wow! Wonder what it takes to earn respect? ::) I realize you can't please everyone, but geez!

Sounds like Scapegoat is looking for a scapegoat! Also sounds like he would be okay with school B implementing old ways and go back to being bottom dwellers again... ::)

[scapegoat]

Abe,if you noticed in a earlier thread I said he was one of the best coaches in the state of Texas.My point is the team could possibly be better if football guys were not called "football guys" and treated fairly.I see a us against them approach.English has done a great job turning programs around.I think if he moved to a 5-A or college the sky is the limit for him.Specialist are the norm. there.I also said football coach and basketball coach do not get along.Let me ask you,if you were a athletic director and football coach at a school and you found out the basketball coach was trying to get kids that would help the football program play basketball only how much would you help that guy? The football coach also sees his kids treated unfairly! I believe this is what is happening in Nederland. 

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368662" timestamp="1359671298"]
Abe,if you noticed in a earlier thread I said he was one of the best coaches in the state of Texas.My point is the team could possibly be better if football guys were not called "football guys" and treated fairly.I see a us against them approach.English has done a great job turning programs around.I think if he moved to a 5-A or college the sky is the limit for him.Specialist are the norm. there.I also said football coach and basketball coach do not get along.Let me ask you,if you were a athletic director and football coach at a school and you found out the basketball coach was trying to get kids that would help the football program play basketball only how much would you help that guy? The football coach also sees his kids treated unfairly! I believe this is what is happening in Nederland.
[/quote] Hmmm!

[scapegoat]

Abe,i think English has so many people around him telling him how great he is because they benefit from the way he runs things.I do not think he knows how much he hurt some great kids that had some talent.You can talk about wins all you want but in the end it is about how kids feel about you and how you effected their lives.Believe me I have found out this the hard way!

[usedtobe]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1368665" timestamp="1359671728"]
[quote author=scapegoat link=topic=108406.msg1368662#msg1368662 date=1359671298]
Abe,if you noticed in a earlier thread I said he was one of the best coaches in the state of Texas.My point is the team could possibly be better if football guys were not called "football guys" and treated fairly.I see a us against them approach.English has done a great job turning programs around.I think if he moved to a 5-A or college the sky is the limit for him.Specialist are the norm. there.I also said football coach and basketball coach do not get along.Let me ask you,if you were a athletic director and football coach at a school and you found out the basketball coach was trying to get kids that would help the football program play basketball only how much would you help that guy? The football coach also sees his kids treated unfairly! I believe this is what is happening in Nederland.
[/quote] Hmmm!
[/quote]
Well now - things are going so well in Nederland High School that somebody had to stir something up.  Nice job, scapegoat; you da man to do it! 8)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368666" timestamp="1359671914"]
Abe,i think English has so many people around him telling him how great he is because they benefit from the way he runs things.I do not think he knows how much he hurt some great kids that had some talent.You can talk about wins all you want but in the end it is about how kids feel about you and how you effected their lives.Believe me I have found out this the hard way!
[/quote]Scapegoat, it sounds like you have a lot on your mind. I get the feeling you want to tell us more (in detail) but it seems you are holding back. This is the perfect "forum" to get those deep-rooted feelings out into the open. We're here for you bro!!!

[Bigdog]

Lets steer this away from coach bashing , as soon as possible.  Also, BD quite egging them on!

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="1368662" timestamp="1359671298"]
Abe,if you noticed in a earlier thread I said he was one of the best coaches in the state of Texas.My point is the team could possibly be better if football guys were not called "football guys" and treated fairly.I see a us against them approach.English has done a great job turning programs around.I think if he moved to a 5-A or college the sky is the limit for him.Specialist are the norm. there.I also said football coach and basketball coach do not get along.Let me ask you,if you were a athletic director and football coach at a school and you found out the basketball coach was trying to get kids that would help the football program play basketball only how much would you help that guy? The football coach also sees his kids treated unfairly! I believe this is what is happening in Nederland.
[/quote]So, since the FB coach won't allow his FB kids to participate in Bball, that is the Bball coach's fault? ??? Interesting spin. ::) Does a kid have a choice to be in the basketball period but also play football? Why not? While he is practicing basketball during the Fall, do you expect he will be as good as the kids who practice FB every day? I doubt it. Would that kid be more of a role player on the FB team or the QB?

You also just confirmed my suspicion that you would be okay with the Ned Bball program going back to its losing ways by suggesting he go to a 5A school or college. As long as Little Johnny doesn't get his feelings hurt. Because after all, it's all about how kids 'feel' not about winning. May as well give everyone a blue ribbon and a trophy just for trying. ::)

Then you want to bring up how he has affected kid's lives, yet you fail to recognize all of the kids who played for him and won. Do you not care about their experience and how their lives will forever be changed bc of the positive  experience they encountered?  Would those kids be more confident people today had they played on below average teams or not had a good experience? SMH

[Jdaddy]

As a former player for Nederland let me clear things up. One, Coach English plays the best talent, I've never seen anyone at any level not be played like they should unless it was disciplinary action for something the player did. He won't show any bias to anyone, in fact he's the hardest on his son. Every player and student at the school loves coach E, he's a outstanding person and a EXCELLENT coach. Two, Coach English allows damn near anyone to join in the basketball class at all levels, so if you are telling me your son couldn't get into basketball class? Or summer league? You better tell your son to pick another sport, because you have to be TERRIBLE for coach E to say you can't join  ::). The way things are ran at Nederland as exactly how they should be, you are crazy to debate that.