thetragichippy

Ok, you said there were no white slaves, there were........now you bring up you dont need a history lesson. PNGkid is throwing facts as I do to support my statements. The history is history, it cannot be changed, BUT we can learn from it. In order to learn from it, you have to know it and understand it! About 40 messages ago I gave my spill on the things I thought Bush did well. I have to agree, Homeland security is one of the best things he's done.

It is a big deal. It was a big deal when Hitler was conquering lands. The Constitution DID NOT guarantee everyone freedom because at the time it was created...not all were free. The fact that you state you see no slaves today is how it should have been from day one. Didn't many people come here to escape religious persecutions and to be able to form a democratic society where all should have the rights to all that the Constitution represents? I guess all of the formerly oppressed groups should just feel blessed that we've come so far? Sorry, but if the foundation of our country states that ALL are guaranteed freedoms and liberties...ALL is a fairly defining word. While I am glad that I am here, the fact that one group of people profited at the expense of another through oppression, abuse, neglect, murder, separating families...that turns my stomach as I type this. I think that walking in other's shoes "may" change people's views. Kind of gives a new perspective on things. No, the Constitution did not create slavery...in an indirect way, I would have to respectfully disagree that it did not condone it because through inaction, that's essentially what happened. The fact that slavery existed...so. Religious persecutions and dictators and all of the other potentially harmful ways of the world were also here before the Constitution was here, but again...those were also ideals and things that our forefathers believed should not be a part of our America. The United States might not have lost 140,000 lives had slavery not been allowed to become a disgusting part of who we were supposed to be. We just executed Saddam Hussein because of how he treated his countrymen (and others) and the atrocities that he masterminded and followed-through with and we want to lead these other countries to be a democratic society where freedoms are a "guarantee"...yet, it took us how long to guarantee those freedoms to our own citizens and countrymen? How would you feel if you were a slave (a mother) whose "master" stole her child and sold that child to another owner because he was so determined to break her? Not much different than what Hitler and the Nazis did during WWII. I would ask you to think about that for a little more than a minute. Slavery was accepted back then. I'm glad we abolished it, but it was not just in the United States. When you say selling a mothers child, they did that in Africa as well. No matter what Country, it's still wrong. America figured that out over time. There is still slavery in Africa. I never hear blacks speaking negatively about Africa. Dick Vital actually thought African groups never took over lands. The more you look at both countries, the more we "were" the same.........now we are different in many ways, such as America has no slaves. Accepted you say? By who? It shouldn't matter that "it was not just in the U.S." Our U.S. was supposed to be better than that. Who cares what they did in Africa? Atrocities have happened all over the world, then and now...that does not justify (or at least should not justify) the atrocities of slavery in this country in the past. And, you are right...the more we look at both countries and others, the more we were the same...except that America was supposed to be founded on the notion that EVERYONE was guaranteed FREEDOM and EVERYONE did not include EVERYONE until not so long ago. From the initiation of the Constitution...America should have had no slaves. How would we feel if white people had been the slaves? I know I wouldn't be a happy camper...or slave. I would have a hard time believing that anyone would. Of course, I would have probably been lynched or hanging in the next tree because what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, no matter There were white slaves....... Originally in the American colonies, 1600 to 1800, Native Americans and other groups, mostly white Europeans such as captured soldiers, minor criminals, etc., were used as slaves Jamestown, Virginia in 1619 as indentured servants. The transformation from indentured servitude (servants contracted to work for a set amount of time) to racial slavery happened gradually. There are no laws regarding slavery early in Virginia's history. By 1640, the Virginia courts had sentenced at least one black servant to slavery. Three servants working for a farmer named Hugh Gwyn ran away to Maryland. Two were white; one was black. They were captured in Maryland and returned to Jamestown, where the court sentenced all three to thirty lashes -- a severe punishment even by the standards of 17th century Virginia. The two white men were sentenced to an additional four years of servitude -- one more year for Gwyn followed by three more for the colony. When I said accepted, it was lawful.

Yea, it was Bushes fault. Funny how Obama is changing his mind on a lot of security issues...... acting a little like Bush. Bush was not as dumb as the left plays him. For a dumb guy, he sure got a lot of things done.

It is a big deal. It was a big deal when Hitler was conquering lands. The Constitution DID NOT guarantee everyone freedom because at the time it was created...not all were free. The fact that you state you see no slaves today is how it should have been from day one. Didn't many people come here to escape religious persecutions and to be able to form a democratic society where all should have the rights to all that the Constitution represents? I guess all of the formerly oppressed groups should just feel blessed that we've come so far? Sorry, but if the foundation of our country states that ALL are guaranteed freedoms and liberties...ALL is a fairly defining word. While I am glad that I am here, the fact that one group of people profited at the expense of another through oppression, abuse, neglect, murder, separating families...that turns my stomach as I type this. I think that walking in other's shoes "may" change people's views. Kind of gives a new perspective on things. No, the Constitution did not create slavery...in an indirect way, I would have to respectfully disagree that it did not condone it because through inaction, that's essentially what happened. The fact that slavery existed...so. Religious persecutions and dictators and all of the other potentially harmful ways of the world were also here before the Constitution was here, but again...those were also ideals and things that our forefathers believed should not be a part of our America. The United States might not have lost 140,000 lives had slavery not been allowed to become a disgusting part of who we were supposed to be. We just executed Saddam Hussein because of how he treated his countrymen (and others) and the atrocities that he masterminded and followed-through with and we want to lead these other countries to be a democratic society where freedoms are a "guarantee"...yet, it took us how long to guarantee those freedoms to our own citizens and countrymen? How would you feel if you were a slave (a mother) whose "master" stole her child and sold that child to another owner because he was so determined to break her? Not much different than what Hitler and the Nazis did during WWII. I would ask you to think about that for a little more than a minute. Slavery was accepted back then. I'm glad we abolished it, but it was not just in the United States. When you say selling a mothers child, they did that in Africa as well. No matter what Country, it's still wrong. America figured that out over time. There is still slavery in Africa. I never hear blacks speaking negatively about Africa. Dick Vital actually thought African groups never took over lands. The more you look at both countries, the more we "were" the same.........now we are different in many ways, such as America has no slaves.

If you quit bringing up all those points, then maybe we could agree on some things........but your the one that brought up Race!

Here is your problem or your crutch DV, you assume that anytime anyone says anything against another person and the person happens to be black, then that must be the cause. Obama hasn't caught nearly the flak (yet) that Bill Clinton ended up catching. Was it because Clinton was.... what? He wasn't black so that can't be it. Maybe it was because he was from Arkansas... yeah, that's it. The people that don't like Obama is because they don't like spending even more tax money on bailouts (they didn't like it under Bush either), they don't like the cutting of military programs, they don't like his anti-gun stance, etc. Put a white guy in the same place (like Clinton) and you will get the same responses..... and did. TVC, if he did what you recommended, then he would have to take personal accountability for his actions........it's much easier for him to blame it on his color!

(A) Bullying use to be called The Manifest Destiny and ( An example? Sure, remember "Shock & Awe? In response to (A), thanks for proving one small part of my point. In response to (, Shock & Awe wasn't "bullying," it was a military operation designed to demoralize the Iraqi army by putting on, literally, a fireworks show by repeatedly bombing strategic targets or the remains thereof, causing a decline in the will to resist and ultimately saving American lives. "Bullying" suggests that the operation was pointless violence, and it most certainly was not. Virtually no lives were lost in Operation: Shock & Awe on either side. It was just a way to "soften up" Iraq, much the same way we did in Vietnam with Operations: Linebacker, Linebacker II, and Rolling Thunder and in WWII with the intense bombardments of Normandy immediately previous to Operation: Overlord and the various Pacific islands we took during our "Island Hopping" campaigns. You are characterizing me as a racist based on the area I live in, and, frankly, I find that characterization insulting and slanderous. You, sir, are the ignoramus in this situation. You make claims with absolutely no evidence to affirm them and do so based solely on emotions and hearsay. I have nothing against President Obama based on his race or questionable religous background; my only concerns are based on his political positions and agendas. The idea that I am a racist is something that you are inferring with no factual basis whatsoever. BandKid, you crack me up..........what are you going to college for? If you say your not, me and you are going to have a problem!

Instead of name calling, why don't you argue your facts.......remember your post: Excellent post by stang and I will admit, tvc makes a fairly good point as well, but I have do disagree when you say that taking one's land is "no big deal". It is a VERY big deal...You don't see that as a wrong doing, tvc? Can you name a group of Africans that stole any land? What about on the Australian continent? You said it was a common practice and I sorely disagree with you...It was common among EUROPEANS, maybe, but it was not a common practice to bully land and cheat people out of what was already claimed. We have all game examples proving you're wrong........... All you have left is name calling???

Now look what we got... A president who spent BILLIONS to bail out GM, and they are still going bankrupt. Someone who said he would reverse many of Bush's "controversial" terror war measures, but he is still going on with the tribunals, not releasing pictures (although he said he would), and not going to close Gitmo. On top of that our Speaker (two heart beats away from the presidency) has lied so many times the last three weeks she can't even say her words from the heart in a news conference. Bush may have made some mistakes, but the democrats sure don't have clean hands in all this mess we are in. All within a 100 or so days.................

Baddog...you jump in there WHENEVER you want! This is a public forum and IMO all are welcome. Your right, we can't talk about current events because there is "a few" that try to blame everything on the past. There is one I have no hope for (actually 2), but BlueDove I think, just trys to get us to see things through his eyes. I hardly ever agree, because he bases his thoughts through emotion, but he keeps me on my toes. BandKid is in high school(I hope, because if he's any younger.....) and I hope my son ends up with as much knowledge as he has. Also, don't be afraid to google.....you can get lots of information that way. Just make sure the information is factual and not an opinion.

tvc's, bandkid's, and hippy's posts covered most of this. I am only interested in if you are inferring that Cleopatra was black. If so, I wonder if they were slave owners? Took a long time and lots of people to build all those pyramids. Come on Man.......You know the history books were written to cover up all the bad things in the world........

Anyway, she's about as truthful as Cheney...... Well then that makes it ok, huh? When does one stand on one's own two feet and stop pointing fingers? She has gotten herself into the same place as Obama....between a rock and a hard place. Bush's poilicies are looking better all the time. Maybe now, the ''fickle finger of fate'' will be pointed in the right direction. Those policies in 'Not so Real America' still stink. I could care less what she knew and when she knew it. It wasn't Pelosi who said "we need to go to the dark side....." and it darn sure wasn't NP who gave the torture orders, okayed the memos---pre writing of them. All Dick 'The Penquin' Cheney---former Vice Chicken Hawk. Pelosi, as well as other Dems at the time, went along so they wouldn't seem 'soft' on terror in 'Real America' Like I said earlier, when GWB gave the orders for the CIA to go into Afganistan----teaming up with the 'Northern Alience'(which had the help of Iran btw), they did good running the Taliban(remember them? they took credit for 9/11)out of Afganistan. Then the NeoCons step in and Conned us all.... A car bomb ripped through a packed street in Pakistan's city of Peshawar TODAY and killed 11 people, including women and children, near an ice cream shop and Internet cafe Saturday, officials said. The blast exploded in the densely populated Kashkal area of Peshawar, the northwest city where people have sought shelter after escaping a Pakistani military offensive against Taliban militants in three districts further north. For those of you that think the war is over and that America is safe is living in a fantasy world. Bush has a lot to do why those car bombs are exploding in Peshawar and not in our own backyard! For some of you, it's going to take another 9/11 to make you understand that. Making excuses for Pelosi shows how far the left will go to protect it's own. You do realize she said she did not know, then she kinda knew. Do you really believe that????? Pathetic! Well you seem to be speaking for all the Chicken Hawks on this board. Get off the keyboard and do something about it. Go enlist and say you want to go to the Stands ASAP to protect 'Real America' To be honest, I sometimes wear a 7.25 inch size tin hat. Since Pakistan has no oil(that we know of), there won't be another hit here. No need for the Carlyle group and others to use the Shock Doctrine to set up shop in Pakistan..... ;D ;D Thats really your response?? I guess I messed you up when I post facts. thetragichippy, some people are just looking to blame someone else for the world's problems. It's sad that the man who protected us is taking the blame for doing his job. You would think that 9/11 never happened based on some of these post. We can talk on forums like this (unless the thread is deleted ;D ) because we are free. We are free because we FOUGHT for our freedom. Obama is going back to Bushes policy's for a reason........THEY WORKED. Think about it, Military tribunals, NOT releasing the pictures, tapping our reserve......and the list WILL go on! BTW PNGkid..........great post here lately.......

Careful PNG BAndKId.....you might drown them in facts....

OK MR. Realist...... Fifteen Countries There are currently fifteen African countries involved in war, or are experiencing post-war conflict and tension. In West Africa, the countries include Cote d'Ivoire, Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, and Togo. In East Africa, the countries include Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan, Uganda. In Central Africa, the countries include Burundi, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda. In North Africa, the country is Algeria and in South Africa, the countries include Angola and Zimbabwe. The Base of the Wars At the base of these wars is the rich natural resources each of these poor countries hold of timber, oil or diamonds, compounded in many cases by the foreign extractive industries presence, their opaque, unreported payments to the governments and the governments' opaque, unreported use of the money to create and fund wars. The wars serve the purpose of creating a distraction, as the countries and their fleeing, displaced citizens are robbed of their countries' natural resources, easily converted to cash, for the personal use and fortunes of ruling parties. Tribal conflict is deliberately antagonized, so it can be blamed for the conflict. See Countries in Conflict News for up to the half hour country-specific news. Slave owners were your forefathers to Dick. The Europeans purchased them from Aficans. Black people sold other black people. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The slave trade in Africa existed for thousands of years. The first main route passed through the Sahara, tying in to the Arab slave trade. After the European Age of Exploration, African slaves became part of the Atlantic slave trade, from which comes the modern, Western conception of slavery as an institution of African-descended slaves and non-African slave owners. Despite its illegality, slavery continues in some parts of the world, including Africa. And it's still going on today........good thing you live in the FREE USA!

Anyway, she's about as truthful as Cheney...... Well then that makes it ok, huh? When does one stand on one's own two feet and stop pointing fingers? She has gotten herself into the same place as Obama....between a rock and a hard place. Bush's poilicies are looking better all the time. Maybe now, the ''fickle finger of fate'' will be pointed in the right direction. Those policies in 'Not so Real America' still stink. I could care less what she knew and when she knew it. It wasn't Pelosi who said "we need to go to the dark side....." and it darn sure wasn't NP who gave the torture orders, okayed the memos---pre writing of them. All Dick 'The Penquin' Cheney---former Vice Chicken Hawk. Pelosi, as well as other Dems at the time, went along so they wouldn't seem 'soft' on terror in 'Real America' Like I said earlier, when GWB gave the orders for the CIA to go into Afganistan----teaming up with the 'Northern Alience'(which had the help of Iran btw), they did good running the Taliban(remember them? they took credit for 9/11)out of Afganistan. Then the NeoCons step in and Conned us all.... A car bomb ripped through a packed street in Pakistan's city of Peshawar TODAY and killed 11 people, including women and children, near an ice cream shop and Internet cafe Saturday, officials said. The blast exploded in the densely populated Kashkal area of Peshawar, the northwest city where people have sought shelter after escaping a Pakistani military offensive against Taliban militants in three districts further north. For those of you that think the war is over and that America is safe is living in a fantasy world. Bush has a lot to do why those car bombs are exploding in Peshawar and not in our own backyard! For some of you, it's going to take another 9/11 to make you understand that. Making excuses for Pelosi shows how far the left will go to protect it's own. You do realize she said she did not know, then she kinda knew. Do you really believe that????? Pathetic! Well you seem to be speaking for all the Chicken Hawks on this board. Get off the keyboard and do something about it. Go enlist and say you want to go to the Stands ASAP to protect 'Real America' To be honest, I sometimes wear a 7.25 inch size tin hat. Since Pakistan has no oil(that we know of), there won't be another hit here. No need for the Carlyle group and others to use the Shock Doctrine to set up shop in Pakistan..... ;D ;D Thats really your response?? I guess I messed you up when I post facts. Posting about car bombs going off on the other side of the world quite frankly doesn't move me. Frankly, I wish Obama could leave the 'Stans but that's a discussion for another day. If those people want to continue to blow each other up so they can follow some archaic form of Islam is fine with me. The like it, I love it..... Dude, I'm done with you! Those car bombs killed children.............

Anyway, she's about as truthful as Cheney...... Well then that makes it ok, huh? When does one stand on one's own two feet and stop pointing fingers? She has gotten herself into the same place as Obama....between a rock and a hard place. Bush's poilicies are looking better all the time. Maybe now, the ''fickle finger of fate'' will be pointed in the right direction. Those policies in 'Not so Real America' still stink. I could care less what she knew and when she knew it. It wasn't Pelosi who said "we need to go to the dark side....." and it darn sure wasn't NP who gave the torture orders, okayed the memos---pre writing of them. All Dick 'The Penquin' Cheney---former Vice Chicken Hawk. Pelosi, as well as other Dems at the time, went along so they wouldn't seem 'soft' on terror in 'Real America' Like I said earlier, when GWB gave the orders for the CIA to go into Afganistan----teaming up with the 'Northern Alience'(which had the help of Iran btw), they did good running the Taliban(remember them? they took credit for 9/11)out of Afganistan. Then the NeoCons step in and Conned us all.... A car bomb ripped through a packed street in Pakistan's city of Peshawar TODAY and killed 11 people, including women and children, near an ice cream shop and Internet cafe Saturday, officials said. The blast exploded in the densely populated Kashkal area of Peshawar, the northwest city where people have sought shelter after escaping a Pakistani military offensive against Taliban militants in three districts further north. For those of you that think the war is over and that America is safe is living in a fantasy world. Bush has a lot to do why those car bombs are exploding in Peshawar and not in our own backyard! For some of you, it's going to take another 9/11 to make you understand that. Making excuses for Pelosi shows how far the left will go to protect it's own. You do realize she said she did not know, then she kinda knew. Do you really believe that????? Pathetic! Well you seem to be speaking for all the Chicken Hawks on this board. Get off the keyboard and do something about it. Go enlist and say you want to go to the Stands ASAP to protect 'Real America' To be honest, I sometimes wear a 7.25 inch size tin hat. Since Pakistan has no oil(that we know of), there won't be another hit here. No need for the Carlyle group and others to use the Shock Doctrine to set up shop in Pakistan..... ;D ;D Thats really your response?? I guess I messed you up when I post facts.

Anyway, she's about as truthful as Cheney...... Well then that makes it ok, huh? When does one stand on one's own two feet and stop pointing fingers? She has gotten herself into the same place as Obama....between a rock and a hard place. Bush's poilicies are looking better all the time. Maybe now, the ''fickle finger of fate'' will be pointed in the right direction. Those policies in 'Not so Real America' still stink. I could care less what she knew and when she knew it. It wasn't Pelosi who said "we need to go to the dark side....." and it darn sure wasn't NP who gave the torture orders, okayed the memos---pre writing of them. All Dick 'The Penquin' Cheney---former Vice Chicken Hawk. Pelosi, as well as other Dems at the time, went along so they wouldn't seem 'soft' on terror in 'Real America' Like I said earlier, when GWB gave the orders for the CIA to go into Afganistan----teaming up with the 'Northern Alience'(which had the help of Iran btw), they did good running the Taliban(remember them? they took credit for 9/11)out of Afganistan. Then the NeoCons step in and Conned us all.... A car bomb ripped through a packed street in Pakistan's city of Peshawar TODAY and killed 11 people, including women and children, near an ice cream shop and Internet cafe Saturday, officials said. The blast exploded in the densely populated Kashkal area of Peshawar, the northwest city where people have sought shelter after escaping a Pakistani military offensive against Taliban militants in three districts further north. For those of you that think the war is over and that America is safe is living in a fantasy world. Bush has a lot to do why those car bombs are exploding in Peshawar and not in our own backyard! For some of you, it's going to take another 9/11 to make you understand that. Making excuses for Pelosi shows how far the left will go to protect it's own. You do realize she said she did not know, then she kinda knew. Do you really believe that????? Pathetic!

Most already know my opinion. I have a lot more trust in the CIA than in Nancy. I think what this boils down to is this. 1. She was getting pressure from the Dem's to find any way to tarnish the republicans and Bush. 2. They figured bring out the torture and try to show the American people they broke the law. 3. Prosecute enough republicans and Obama gets another 4 years. The problem is, Democrats and Republicans both agreed with those techniques. If she would of said she knew and had changed her mind (like what might have happened), she would be ok, but so would the Republican party. INSTEAD, she lied and tried to pretend that she had no clue. She was called on it and her story has changed several times. Now shes stuck, she has to keep her story OR admit shes a liar. I'm pretty sure her credibility is gone and we will have a new speaker. This was a failed attempt by the Democratic party to secure Obama for another 4 years.

I think that you are okay as long as it is not game fish (Bass for example) or unless that law pending in the legislature passes about limiting bowfishing to one gar per day. I forgot what the outcome of that proposal was. I've fished pine island a few times, but never seen any gar.......of course was not looking for them either. You may want to research where the best place for that is. Pine Island might be it, just never seen any.

refute the fact that George W was a bully--------He stood up for what he believed. Kinda like you are doing except with class Refute the fact that the reason we invaded Iraq was NOT really because of 9/11....It was for the OIL! Known fact --------- No fact, it was not for oil. If it was, where is it at? Refute the way this country was obtained and built. STOLEN --- like most country's, it was fought over. No different from most other countries.

That was a well thought out remark......... typical That generally means, "I have no other comeback against the facts so I'll have to make some silly quip". Exactly. Notice how not one of them have refuted what you posted. Why argue with the brainwashed Bush followers?....Waste of time...Thats the SE Texas way.. Once again if you folks think that the economic situation that we are in is not a DIRECT result of your boy George W., then you are dumber than I thought you were. HOW can you go back to the Clinton years and attepmt to blame THEM? Our economy was BOOMING during those years! Bush was a BULLY....Just like your forefathers were BULLIES back in their day...Thieves, liars, and backstabbers! ALL OF THEM....Sad. Wanna refute that fact? Didn't think you would. Just thought they could just TAKE what they wanted...JUST LIKE GEORGE W. That's the most illiterate, ignorant, inaccurate and derogating post I have seen in a long time!

Nice Post TVC.........very well thought out and very, very true!

I might have got carried away ;D ;D ;D 1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade. 2. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline. 3. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history. 4. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks. 5. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people. 6. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals. 7. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home. 8. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child. 9. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency. (no hanky panky) 10. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days....how soon we forget! 11. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed. 12. Was one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency. 13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command. 14. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry. 15. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006. 16. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit. Important if your in the plane!! 17. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.

Anyone that would like to fish a friendly tournament on May 30th, please go to like below. We would like a few more boats. [Hidden Content]

Anyone that would like to fish a friendly tournament on May 30th, please go to like below. We would like a few more boats. [Hidden Content]